The "P" in PDGA...

[ScottyLove]

I keep reading about how folks want the PDGA to further the sport at the grass roots level and other such drivel. And while that's admirable and probably even a tenant of their mission statement, I don't feel it's the PRIMARY goal nor should it. The "P" stands for "Professional" just like it does in the PGA for ball golf and the PBA in bowling and many other sports.

Sure I can join the PGA and PBA and PDGA as an amateur and get swag and maybe other benefits, but the primary function of these organizations is ro run their respective PROFESSIONAL tours is it not?

Again, I'm not against anyone helping to expand this great sport, but I find it odd that so many folks get bent of out shape about one thing or another they don't like about the PDGA and how they would focus less on the top talent.

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but that's EXACTLY what I want them to be focused on. Improving exposure of the top events, increasing payouts for these events, attracting sponsorship for these events. Nobody out there cares what I do or other amateurs like myself. I and most folks enjoy watching the best players in the world do stuff with a disc that I can only hope to.

That's why Sprint Cup racing is on every weekend and not dirt track racing. The point is the PDGA absolutely should be focused on the top tier events and talent. Increasing exposure to the masses of NT, Major, and A-Tier events will draw in more folks to our sport.

And YES, I believe in starting at the middle and high school level to introduce more young folks to our great sport, but that's not the PDGA's problem to solve necessarily.

My $0.02... I'll crawl back under my rock now.

 

[NOStheBOSS]

Thank goodness someone else shares my opinion. Be prepared, most people on here only care about how many discs they're going to win this weekend and don't care about any pros, how much money they make, or how they place in big tournaments.

 

[atay87]

Three Putt on getting hung up on the 'P':

Semantics.

Ed Headrick named his company "Disc Golf Association" and called the tour he put together under the umbrella of that company the "Professional Disc Golf Association" because it was modeled after the IFA. The IFA was an illusion: pay people to play Frisbee and then pretend that Frisbee events had what it took to be a professional sport. The PDGA was set up to use Wham-O money to pretend disc golf had what it took to be a professional sport.

When Wham-O was bought out and the IFA was folded, the money train when off the tracks. The PDGA had to reorganize as a player-run organization, and they eventually realized they needed to include amateurs. They couldn't just drop the "P" and be the DGA because Ed was already using that name for his company. They did a poll, and the Amateurs who had joined the PDGA overwhelmingly wanted to keep "Professional" in the name. So the organization changed but the name didn't. The PDGA isn't really a Pro disc golf organization and hasn't been since the late 80's. It's a disc golf organization with "Professional" in the name.

The question of the PDGA putting too much emphasis on the "Professional" side of things is a valid one, but we would have the same issues if the name was just the DGA.

 

[_MTL_]

Long term I agree with you, but right now the sport isn't big enough and there isn't enough money to support multiple large organizations.

 

[tdschrock1]

Thats very interesting, as an average Am, I haven't given it much thought. I would be all for a renewed push to improve the Pro tour.

 

[The Hammer]

Below is the vision and mission statement approved by the PDGA BoD:

Vision Statement:
The PDGA is a membership organization dedicated to the promotion and sustainable growth of
disc golf.
Mission Statement:
To develop disc golf into a globally-recognized competitive sport and recreational activity
through:
• Player participation
• Tournament development
• Spectator participation
• Course development
• Rules and competitive standards
• Media and sponsor relations
• Public education and outreach
To sustain the growth of the organization, membership, and disc golf by means of:
• Financial stewardship
• Asset and resource management
• Membership support
Value Statement:
The PDGA is driven by the principles of:
• Integrity
• Accountability
• Lifetime fitness
• Transparency
• Professionalism
• Sportsmanship
• Diversity
• Personal Growth
• Inclusion

 

[Three Putt]

I love when posts I made with typos get quoted. :|

 

[The Hammer]

The organization's responsibility is to uphold it's published mission and vision. If you don't agree with the mission and vision, then you shouldn't join. People get bent out of shape when an organization alienates their stated goals, as they should. If they have ulterior motives, then they should be published.

 

[gvan]

I loev when psots I mad with typos got qoted. :|

FTFY

 

[ru4por]

Well, the PGA and PBA are both extremely active in growing the sport at the amateur levels, but maybe that is not the crux of your post. Pro players represent a very small percentage of players, and I don't think the association would be viable, on the dues of touring pros alone. I am a long standing member of the PDGA #17958 and do not play in sanctioned events. No real reason other than a long standing group of friends that I can play with socially. I wholly believe the PDGA should up hold the standards it has put forth as it's vision and mission. Pro support should be heavily reliant upon disc companies.

 

[JTacoma03]

The organization's responsibility is to uphold it's published mission and vision. If you don't agree with the mission and vision, then you shouldn't join. People get bent out of shape when an organization alienates their stated goals, as they should. If they have ulterior motives, then they should be published.

I don't think anything that anybody has said in this thread goes against the mission statement.

I think mostly people are disagreeing on the methods used to achieve it.

 

[Three Putt]

I keep reading about how folks want the PDGA to further the sport at the grass roots level and other such drivel. And while that's admirable and probably even a tenant of their mission statement, I don't feel it's the PRIMARY goal nor should it. The "P" stands for "Professional" just like it does in the PGA for ball golf and the PBA in bowling and many other sports.

Sure I can join the PGA and PBA and PDGA as an amateur and get swag and maybe other benefits, but the primary function of these organizations is ro run their respective PROFESSIONAL tours is it not?

Again, I'm not against anyone helping to expand this great sport, but I find it odd that so many folks get bent of out shape about one thing or another they don't like about the PDGA and how they would focus less on the top talent.

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but that's EXACTLY what I want them to be focused on. Improving exposure of the top events, increasing payouts for these events, attracting sponsorship for these events. Nobody out there cares what I do or other amateurs like myself. I and most folks enjoy watching the best players in the world do stuff with a disc that I can only hope to.

That's why Sprint Cup racing is on every weekend and not dirt track racing. The point is the PDGA absolutely should be focused on the top tier events and talent. Increasing exposure to the masses of NT, Major, and A-Tier events will draw in more folks to our sport.

And YES, I believe in starting at the middle and high school level to introduce more young folks to our great sport, but that's not the PDGA's problem to solve necessarily.

My $0.02... I'll crawl back under my rock now.

What I think you might not understand is that disc golf developed upside-down. Wham-O through the IFA created professional Frisbee as a vehicle to sell Frisbees; the actual games had to be created. In the end when Wham-O sold out to Kransco in '82-'83 and Kransco cut off the corporate money, you had sports with professional players and no amateur play base. The companies that replaced Wham-O (read: Innova, Discraft and Lightning) were small start-ups that did not have the corporate resources that Wham-O had, so dumping the financial responsibility of replacing the IFA money on them was not feasible. In short, the original PDGA model was not going to work anymore.

Disc golf had to do something to develop amateur participation to develop a base that could support professional play. Since the mid-80's, the PDGA has been trying to do that in hopes that one day the base will grow to a size that can attract sponsorship and support a Professional tour. The sport has been successfully growing over that time, but the reality is that with all the growth we have seen the sport is still far, far too small to sustain a Professional tour.

If the PDGA would drop its current mission and go back to the late-70's approach to Professional disc golf, it would be out of business in under a year. We have a long, long way to go before the "P" can become the most important letter in PDGA.

 

[BangChaians]

The PBR also

 

[ScottyLove]

THANKS SO MUCH for the history lesson Three Putt. This makes a lot more sense now. I agree we're still small time compared to other professional sports... but I'm hopeful, maybe just newbie optimism and not burnt out yet but hopeful nonetheless, that we're making forward progress. Our club here in Jefferson City has seen massive growth in just one year that I've been involved.

We went from ~40 members in 2011 to 84 by the end of 2012. Our membership tourney was held in April 2013 and we're already close to 80 members if not over. I've been personally involved with the new courses in or going in at Camdenton, Osage Beach, Jefferson City, and Holts Summit. Our little C-Tier in October should have $1000 cash added to draw in some top talent.

So as you can see from my perspective, this thing is a juggernaut. I played ball golf 4 times a week for 25+ years and never had the passion I do about disc golf. I never traveled to Phoenix to play it's wonder ball golf courses, but I flew to Scottsdale in Feb to play in the Memorial and have traveled all over the country playing in just my first year. I working with some pros to found a 501(c)(3) corporation to help expand the sport even further by raising large amount of cash through corporate donations... 5-figure type donations. We'll see what becomes of that.

So anyhow, I just thought it odd that everyone was complaining about how they felt the PDGA was not performing... and now it makes sense. It's not quite the organization that I thought it was.

p.s. Can't wait to come down in August for the RUMBLE!!

 

[The Hammer]

I don't think anything that anybody has said in this thread goes against the mission statement.

I think mostly people are disagreeing on the methods used to achieve it.

I'm not implying that anyone did say that. I was alluding to the fact that the OP stated:

"the primary function of these organizations is ro run their respective PROFESSIONAL tours is it not?"

The reason I posted the PDGA mission statement was to illustrate that is not the PDGA's primary function. The feeling I get from reading the published goals is that the PDGA is mainly concerned with growing the sport at a grassroots level. The pro tour is only a small piece of that. If the PDGA were to shift most of their focus to the pro tour, I would expect that the mission and vision be amended to reflect the change in priorities.

 

[Toro71]

^^^The question regarding the number of pro DGers needs to include how the approach of the PDGA encourages or discourages that number.

I dig a lot of the arguments w/r/t catering to "AMs," but it seems to me that the PDGA could do some things that wouldn't change the AM structure at all, and could make a pro tour more legit. Starting with organization. Meaning, get the scheduling together so that a legit tour, with big events every week/two weeks, not separated by a continent or an ocean, so that more players can tour consistently. That can be done without doing anything to payout structures, or the retail/wholesale profit margins. All it takes is basically getting with the sponsors of the bigger events, and having a little backbone, to tell them when/where to have their events. A la the Steve Dodge essay.

For the life of me, I don't see how making life a bit easier on the players willing to dedicate their life to the game, to be the best players, generates so much hateration. Most of the time it just seems like sour grapes to me. I'm NO threat to ever make the pro ranks. But, in a large sense, I think any "sport" owes it to itself to do what it can to support/feature it's best players, rather than take dumps on them at the expense of the players who are OK with being "good enough."

I don't hate on top AMs. I don't really believe in the "bagger" mentality. Whatever level you play at, you want to be the man, you gotta beat the man. But, I do have a problem with a system, wherever it discourages competitive play at the top level by encouraging a 'status quo' mentality at the lower levels.

The PDGA really doesn't need to bend over backwards any more to "support" the AM divs. The current sponsors of big events do that, since that's where their bread is buttered. And while I do have my own opinions w/r/t "amateurism" and the whole "trophy only" debate, I also think that the sanctioning body can do a better job of organizing a more compelling pro tour without upsetting the current AM applecart.

 

[1978]

I keep reading about how folks want the PDGA to further the sport at the grass roots level and other such drivel. And while that's admirable and probably even a tenant of their mission statement, I don't feel it's the PRIMARY goal nor should it. The "P" stands for "Professional" just like it does in the PGA for ball golf and the PBA in bowling and many other sports.

Sure I can join the PGA and PBA and PDGA as an amateur and get swag and maybe other benefits, but the primary function of these organizations is ro run their respective PROFESSIONAL tours is it not?

Again, I'm not against anyone helping to expand this great sport, but I find it odd that so many folks get bent of out shape about one thing or another they don't like about the PDGA and how they would focus less on the top talent.

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but that's EXACTLY what I want them to be focused on. Improving exposure of the top events, increasing payouts for these events, attracting sponsorship for these events. Nobody out there cares what I do or other amateurs like myself. I and most folks enjoy watching the best players in the world do stuff with a disc that I can only hope to.

That's why Sprint Cup racing is on every weekend and not dirt track racing. The point is the PDGA absolutely should be focused on the top tier events and talent. Increasing exposure to the masses of NT, Major, and A-Tier events will draw in more folks to our sport.

And YES, I believe in starting at the middle and high school level to introduce more young folks to our great sport, but that's not the PDGA's problem to solve necessarily.

My $0.02... I'll crawl back under my rock now.

There is little to no money from outside the actual athletes in the sport of disc golf. All money from tournaments that have an Open division is collected, paid to pros in cash, then lost to the retail world. Almost none of it is retained to support the sport. Until there is real money flowing from outside sponsorships non of the Am/Pro arguements make any sense.

I think you are incredibly wrong. Soccer is big everywhere else, but not in the US. Nascar is popular after growing for 60 years. Major sports are on TV because millions of people purchase the equipment. You have to grow the base of disc golf (players, courses) to show sponsors that sponsoring an NT will actually lead to real sales of their widget or service. Currently, there aren't enough disc golfers to do this.

Disc golf can hardly be compared to any other sport. A lot of sports have disposable elements. So if you have a large base, that disposable good or service is an attractive thing to sponsor for. We have more than enough disc manufacturers.
In disc golf you will walk around in a swamp with gators and snakes for 2 hrs looking for 1 disc. It is very hard to sell a lot of $17 things to people that will kill to not lose their current ones. The PDGA absolutly should be focused on growing the sport from the youth to the Ams; not the odd eclectic group of traveling pros that don't relate to the general public.

 

[The Hammer]

^^^The question regarding the number of pro DGers needs to include how the approach of the PDGA encourages or discourages that number.

I dig a lot of the arguments w/r/t catering to "AMs," but it seems to me that the PDGA could do some things that wouldn't change the AM structure at all, and could make a pro tour more legit. Starting with organization. Meaning, get the scheduling together so that a legit tour, with big events every week/two weeks, not separated by a continent or an ocean, so that more players can tour consistently. That can be done without doing anything to payout structures, or the retail/wholesale profit margins. All it takes is basically getting with the sponsors of the bigger events, and having a little backbone, to tell them when/where to have their events. A la the Steve Dodge essay.

For the life of me, I don't see how making life a bit easier on the players willing to dedicate their life to the game, to be the best players, generates so much hateration. Most of the time it just seems like sour grapes to me. I'm NO threat to ever make the pro ranks. But, in a large sense, I think any "sport" owes it to itself to do what it can to support/feature it's best players, rather than take dumps on them at the expense of the players who are OK with being "good enough."

I don't hate on top AMs. I don't really believe in the "bagger" mentality. Whatever level you play at, you want to be the man, you gotta beat the man. But, I do have a problem with a system, wherever it discourages competitive play at the top level by encouraging a 'status quo' mentality at the lower levels.

The PDGA really doesn't need to bend over backwards any more to "support" the AM divs. The current sponsors of big events do that, since that's where their bread is buttered. And while I do have my own opinions w/r/t "amateurism" and the whole "trophy only" debate, I also think that the sanctioning body can do a better job of organizing a more compelling pro tour without upsetting the current AM applecart.

I'm thinking that the PDGA needs two separate committees. One that represents the interests of the ams, and one to represent the concerns of the professional golfers. These two committees could then report to the BoD for oversight and direction.

 

[ScottyLove]

I'm thinking that the PDGA needs two separate committees. One that represents the interests of the ams, and one to represent the concerns of the professional golfers. These two committees could then report to the BoD for oversight and direction.

BRILLIANT! Hammer gets my vote for BoD or committee chair.

Run Hammer Run! Run Hammer Run! :clap:

 

[The Hammer]

Hammers don't run, they smash.

Seeing as I live on the other side of the country, it ain't happening anytime soon.