This is why I like private courses

[Improbably]

I'm new to disc golf so maybe I just don't understand expecting free golf. I would gladly pay multiple private courses $700 yearly membership to play on nice facilities. It helps support nicer courses so I see no downfall. I do have to admit though I have caught disc golf fever and have been reaching out to different places to donate large sums of cash just to spread the wealth and hopefully create new opportunities in this wonderful sport. Imo everyone that loves the sport could help just a little bit more. Hopefully I don't get burnt out, but I don't see that happening at this point.

Want to buy a basket for my local course?

 

[Three Putt]

hmm...typical price for 20 discs, bag, and some accesories? Probably close to at least 300.00. Add in gas, drinks, etc, I'm guessing you're over 500.00. ?

Had the same bag and straps since '08. Never buy drinks; always fill a water bottle. Already have 600 golf discs acquired over the last 20ish years so I pick up 5 or 6 a year. I either run or volunteer at tournaments, never play so no tournament fees. The nearest course is a six-minute walk from my house. I'm $45 a year in for the three leagues I play in + another $90 in discs. I'm a pro at going cheap; I'm waaayyy under $500/year.

 

[scarpfish]

If the course is good enough (and priced right), there's no such thing as "free to play courses to suck the market dry". Quality will survive no matter the cost.

Only if the market will bear it. I've seen many quality operations in all sorts of products and services go belly up because there wasn't enough of a customer base to support it.

Just look at central Massachusetts (say the Worcester area) where there are a bunch of nice free courses within a 25-30 mile radius yet Maple Hill and Pyramids are both extremely popular destinations. Hell, they're across the street from one another and still don't seem to diminish each other's markets at all. They're both quality destinations for disc golf. They're worth paying for even with a free option 2 miles down the street.

Not an applicable situation in many parts of flyover country where courses are plentiful relative to the number of people using them (hence not much crowding), and the near unanimity of them don't cost a dime to play.

I mean, if free would win out over pay, then it would stand to reason that cheaper would win out over expensive, right? Yet arguably the busiest course in the state is the one that charges the most to play, and it competes with at least a half a dozen other courses within 15-20 miles that all charge less. And when I say less, I mean there are courses you can play all day for less than the cost of a single 18-hole round at the pricier spots.

There are always going to be people who are willing to pay money, or more money, for the perception of better quality, or a sense of exclusivity. In parts of the country where the number of courses, and free courses is poor relative to the population using them, pay to play has a better chance of success. Where I live, that's not happening anytime soon. To my knowledge, there is not a dedicated PTP facility anywhere in the state, because the economic, population, and destination factors don't work in its favor.

Pay for play is the future of the sport. The faster pay for play grows, the faster the sport grows in general.

No argument there, but its going to grow in certain spots faster than others, and its a lot easier to do when you don't have to compete with free to play, taxpayer subsidized tracks. A sizeable amount of people in our sport think free to play, at least on public courses, should be an edict, and I doubt they'd have that mentality if we didn't have a history of such.

 

[araytx]

We are seeing the rise of private PTP courses. VisionQuest. BTP, Sabatus are a couple but we are seeing more of the private model sprouting up. As the sport becomes more popular, the age of the player (and income) slowly rises and public courses become busier, many are going to demand better quality facilities.

Likely a reasonable speculation. But the premise of your OP and then the conclusion is post hoc ergo proctor hoc. The Olpe course being unsafe for NT/A-tier tournament play after a daylong deluge, and the need for PTP are not related. I'd doubt there's any reasonable location with enough quality PTPs in close enough proximity to even hold a tournament the size of GBO, much less adapt to a course closure temporarily.

 

[Steve West]

Likely a reasonable speculation. But the premise of your OP and then the conclusion is post hoc ergo proctor hoc. The Olpe course being unsafe for NT/A-tier tournament play after a daylong deluge, and the need for PTP are not related. I'd doubt there's any reasonable location with enough quality PTPs in close enough proximity to even hold a tournament the size of GBO, much less adapt to a course closure temporarily.

This doesn't contradict your point (because most of these are not private), but I find it interesting that by using Kaposia, Fort Snelling, Wirth Par 3, The Valley, Vision Quest, Blue Ribbon Pines, Elm Creek Park Reserve, Hyland S&SA, and Bryant Lake Park you could have 756 players (in groups of 4) playing at the same time on pay to play courses.
Add in a couple more in the works for later this year, and it goes up 900 players at the same time in the same area.

 

[Cgkdisc]

This doesn't contradict your point (because most of these are not private), but I find it interesting that by using Kaposia, Fort Snelling, Wirth Par 3, The Valley, Vision Quest, Blue Ribbon Pines, Elm Creek Park Reserve, Hyland S&SA, and Bryant Lake Park you could have 756 players (in groups of 4) playing at the same time on pay to play courses.
Add in a couple more in the works for later this year, and it goes up 900 players at the same time in the same area.

Note that four of those courses were actually used in Am Worlds 2014 and two more might have been used if available back then.

 

[DiscJunkie]

Buy your own land
Spend your own money setting up a course
Maintain your land with all your free time
Pick up litter and cigarette butts all day
Get complaints from disc golfers that it wasn't worth their $5, and you ripped them off
realize that the worst thing about disc golf, is disc golfers
Rip out course
Invest in cattle/cattle feed
Make profits
Travel
Love life

Post of the year, so far.

 

[pauldst]

I've always thought that a livestock farm would be a great place for a disc golf course. Free mowing (and mowers that take out underbrush also). I bet a cow doesn't even move when somebody turns a Rampage over into its noggin.

Yeah, sure, it's all fun and games until somebody's disc lands in a cow-patty! !

 

[discNDav]

I'd gladly pay $500 a year for a nearby highly rated private course. Simply put, it keeps the riff-raff out. Most of my favorite courses are pay to play. I never complain about paying $5-10 especially when traveling or on vacation, it's such a small fraction of my overall expenses.

 

[DavidSauls]

It's something of a leap from $5-$10 a day, and $500 a year. I'm not doubting you. But paying to play an excellent course once or twice or ten or twenty times is one thing; paying $500 for one course, just one of the courses you might want to play, is on an entirely different scale.

 

[Royal Hill]

This has been an interesting read - not a new topic (PTP), but enjoyed the all too true wisdom that came from Whiteybear's sequence as well as Chuck's synopsis on why year round passes at Morley were not a winning thing.

To those that speak of Maine - I had heard (unsubstantiated) that risk management (RM=litigation risk, insurance issues)with private land use for outside recreation income may be friendlier to the property owner. That would explain a lot.

In all discussions like these - it is always worth it to stop for a minute and think from the Owner side, not the Consumer side.
not "What would I like" but "What would I (As a property owner) like out of the situation"
Flipping the thought process around finds the trouble spots fast.

Owner side: Control, access, staffing, risk management, insurance, cost of labor, policing/marshaling, restrooms, garbage, and more.

One overlooked feature is that "access" one and staffing - owner being tied to always be there, or paying someone to be there. or trusting an honor box and taking on a risk of bad stuff happening while away.
I am surprised that many who think of PTP think it would have 24/7/365 access. Even if it was a golfer co-op? Why?

Why not a small farm that gets there PTP course act together just for high season? or a two month high intensity season? (8 weeks of glorious PTP on a layout dressed up to the nines)
Or only Thursday through Saturday's at dusk, but only contracted event use in off season?

Or summer only, but closed during the time they run the pumpkin patch and the corn maze?

It could make sense that "short term" PTP "micro seasons" could be efficient when pent up demand for the limited time windows leads the flow to be worth the effort.

Gosh, using this concept, the Disc Golf Co op almost works with contracted land use for a season. (Co op makes a deal, gives a fixed or variable honorarium to landowner, maybe even handles a short term risk policy, brings in equipment, sets design… blah blah blah)

string a couple of these together and you have options for more months.

 

[The Shide]

It would seem to me that PTP courses would seperate the hucker newbs from the serious golfer. We have an abundance of hucker newbs around here lately. When I try to squeeze in a quick round after my 9 to 5 I run into all the hucker newbs clogging up the few decent courses around town. Then I end up standing around watching them constantly hyzering from one side of the fairway to the other. By the time I finish the hole & try to catch up to play through, they've already teed off and are hyzering from side to side again. Sidebar, it's also funny to watch how they end up throwing at each other. Run, throw. Run, throw. "Dude, you almost hit me." No $h!t Sherlock, you're moving in front of a thrown projectile.

Anyway, we have a few private courses around these parts. Two of them you can play on an honor system (Flip City & Spiniski's), others you have to have permission (BlueGills). These are a few that I know of that are on private property where the owner also has their homes.

I would love to see a DG course that is along the lines of a ball golf course & is close to my home (there are a couple ball golf course with a DG course on it, Yankee Springs & another one outside of Lansing, but they're about an hour drive). I would pay an annual fee. Not sure how much. Guess it would be dependent upon what kind of gravy was going on the mashed 'tatters, if you know what I mean.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Pay boxes around here have been stuffed full lately. 2 times now its been hard to put $ into a course which used to never really see much activity. Ive been very surprised by how busy the pay to play disc golf courses are becoming even with increased prices.

 

[hellbound]

I have never had a problem with pay to play being that im a prof. rec player.

This sport has seen such an explosion of new people taking it up, that pay to play is need to help offset the number of players to course. However we need to still keep the non-pay to play courses to introduce the next up and coming generation.

Just like The Shide I was from grand rapids mi. I remember playing parks and having to wait 5 min at every pad for the new players to hyzer/hole out. (including myself) Some great courses should be pay to play. With the intent of the money to fund course owners-maintenance-information and lessons.

Would I pay 200 a year for a course pass? being as I live in the south now and we play year round. Yeah I could see that. 4.5 a weekend for 45 weeks. Maybe some kind of tie in for the people that have the year pass. I spend more then that with the weekly doubles that I help run and attend for the year.

 

[dreadlock86]

a question to those that wouldn't pay that kind of money to play just one course:

what if it were a complex with a minimum of 3 complementary courses (maybe 2 if there are enough different tee options)? would it be worth considering then?

 

[DavidSauls]

@RoyalHill

Very interesting and thoughtful post, and some good ideas there.

 

[93EXCivic]

I already have expensive hobbies, racing/ playing with cars and watches.

I like disc sports, disc golf and ultimate because they are cheap, fun and get me into the outdoors. I would pay occasionally on a great to play disc golf ($5-10 to play a coarse every once in a while) or maybe $100 for a year long pass but I play 3-4 times a week. If I had to pay $5-10 per round (that would be $1040 at $5 for 4 times a week) or $700 for a year long pass , that would suck. I mean that is the cost of a set of slicks for my car.

 

[nose down]

a question to those that wouldn't pay that kind of money to play just one course:

what if it were a complex with a minimum of 3 complementary courses (maybe 2 if there are enough different tee options)? would it be worth considering then?

I've already said I would gladly pay, but I want to clear it up. To pay a lot of money I would expect top notch so maybe multiple courses, alternate tee pads/holes, or better atleast be a very good 18 holes. Of course I would still consider paying for a course not as good, but probably a lesser amount and would watch to see if fees were actually going to improving the course.

 

[brutalbrutus]

^welcome back Hook-trollz

 

[nose down]

^welcome back Hook-trollz

?? You wouldn't pay to play nice courses?