Tourneys: Why do people TD and Volunteer?

[JohtoVillage]

To answer the original question, I do it for a few reasons:
1) I like seeing out of towners enjoy our local courses.
2) Its awesome to get some of the best players in the world to play your courses.
3) Its gratifying to run a large event and have it go smoothly.

I am the TD of the Ledgestone Insurance Open and I put in thousands of dollars into the event out of my pocket. However, Ledgestone Insurance is my company so it makes it a little different. I am up to 500 hours of time spent on the tournament this year (the tournament is next week). Its definitely a labor of love! I think its more than okay for TD's to make money off of an event, but that's not for me.

TDing in a nutshell, right here. TD burn-out is a real thing, and I'm confident in saying that 95% of the cause of burn-out is dealing with things that shouldn't need to be dealt with. You quickly learn that there are always folks for which nothing will satisfy them fully, and they're not hesitant to let you know about every little thing they're not happy about. While I don't think they out number the happy folks in the slightest, they're always far more vocal about it. To the point where they are always the majority of, if not the entirety of the feedback you get on an event, which is what leaves you wondering why you bother at all.

This is totally on the money - after my A Tier in 2012 it took me 8 months to even decide if I could do it again in 2013, even though we already had a date. I had run a series of 15 tournaments in 2012 and I was burnt out. Fortunately I kept going but its tough to run a big event. Great thread.

 

[DavidSauls]

Say 100 people enter a $30 dollar tourney... $3000. $500-1000 in players packs, $500-700 park fee? ( not sure what the average price is). $1000 in payouts....worst case , leaving $300 for td......tiniest extra cost could make it a wash. best case , $1000 for td. Not a bad weekend for the average working stiff.

Not to quibble, but it's more than a weekend's work in most cases and, in some cases, a lot more than a weekend's work. There are a lot of variables from event to event, but the actual numbers are probably more like: worst case, break even; best case, perhaps $500.

 

[grotto]

10 percent of the people cause 90 percent of the problems, and those 10% are usually very vocal and can grate on more than just the TD and staff. What a lot of people don't realize is that it's not just the weekend of dealing with those 10% players, it's the weeks before of dealing with those 10% of the volunteer staff, they can be the worst prima-donnas!

I've TDed quite a few events in the shooting sports and learned my lesson, never again. Even after the event is moths past, folks are still complaining and tellig you what you should do better the next time. You get sick of hearing all the complaints. It got so bad that after ten years I just sold everything and gave up the sport.

I applaud all those who put on events, they help promote the sport.

 

[DavidSauls]

I've actually had very few problems with problem people, in events I've TD'd or co-TD'd or just assisted with.

It's trying to get all the details right, and dealing with the unexpected, that has had left me saying "never again!" dozens of times. ("Never", apparently, isn't as long as it used to be).

 

[davetherocketguy]

I started sorta-kinda running a league this year and while I realise a league is a much different beast than a tournament there are some things that I do to help calm the negativity. I used to be the club president for our little rocket club for a few years and did some of the same tactics. Not sure if this would help TD's or not but...

When someone says "We should do _____" before even addressing whatever is filling the blank get the who part out of the way. Respond with, "Who exactly is going to do this?" If they respond that it ought to be the fella in charge then tell them to go talk to that guy. 99 times out of 100 they will be too chicken**** to do such a thing.

Repeat their concerns to them. Sounds rediculous but what a lot of these whiners want is to be heard - and not much else. So for example, "I hate the payout structure here." is answered with, "So you're telling me you don't like the payouts." Believe it or not their eyes will light up a little because - someone is listening to them! Let them rant a little and most of the time they will go away. If they continue In that situation I would probably respond with either, "Well, this is a PDGA tournament and my hands are kind of tied to how they want to do it." or "Well, this is an unsanctioned tournament and I tried to come up with a system that would make everyone happy. Evidently that didn't work out. Why don't you come up with a system and go over it with several people from different divisions like I did and see if it's better." This would be a win-win for the TD because one of two things are going to happen, either they really are going to come up with something better (yeah right) or they will go away.

Another thing I found that helped with the rocket club which may translate here is for TD's to be a knowledgeable as humanly possible. Knowing more about the rules and regs helps quell the whiners. And if you don't know the answer, then admit it! Don't try to BS your way through an answer. Surround yourself with other people who are as/more knowledgeable than yourself so they can be used as a resource.

As a last resort (and I've had to say this a few times) sometimes the rules are the rules and there is NO bending them. For example, we have set distances from the crowd for rockets to be launched. Every launch I pulled out our 300' tape to measure distances and I did hear some whining about it. My response was always, "Too bad, we are doing it this way and there is no room for debate. If you don't like it, run the club yourself." Sometimes the whiners just need to be told to shut up and we're not going to listen to their crapola.

Not sure if that helps anyone....If I think of anything else I will post it here. My wife is fantastic at this sort of thing.

 

[DavidSauls]

I think leagues can be much more troublesome than tournaments because almost everyone feels some ownership in them. Not enough to help, of course, but enough to express an opinion. And, since people tend to know each other pretty well, it's a little like a family in that people are less inhibited about expressing those opinions.

My tips for both include:

(1) Communicate in advance. Though as ThreePutt demonstrated, it's no guarantor of peace, it certainly helps.

(2) Do what you say you're going to do. Sticking to the rules is a big part of this.

 

[davetherocketguy]

Another thing I found in our league is to head off issues at the pass. If there is a topic I know is going to generate some controversy then I ask for input ahead of time. For example, the handicap scoring system I came up with is simple but unconventional. I spelled it out to the league in great detail and for a period of three or so weeks I would ask the players if they liked it or not. Or if they had any ideas of how to implement it better - especially the folks I knew weren't happy with it. "Please help me come up with something better if this isn't working for you" was a phrase I used quite a bit. I think this solved a lot of grumbling right off the start.

I suppose if you are a TD and you have a player coming that you know is going to whine a lot maybe ask them to come out a day early to help layout the out of bounds or something like that. Not sure if that would work...Most of the time they won't do it but just giving them the opportunity to voice their opinions helps immensely.

Again, not sure how this would help a TD but there it is anyways.

 

[banknwank]

Not to quibble, but it's more than a weekend's work in most cases and, in some cases, a lot more than a weekend's work. There are a lot of variables from event to event, but the actual numbers are probably more like: worst case, break even; best case, perhaps $500.

No doubt there is extra time and effort besides the day of tourney, and I appreciate the effort. Social media, online registration, scheduling, score keeping, going out of pocket in expenses before registration fees start coming in........ That's why I pay and play, not host a tourney. I did say love of the game is probably first for most td . And I always thank staff for time and efforts put into a tourney.

 

[coupe]

Say 100 people enter a $30 dollar tourney... $3000. $500-1000 in players packs, $500-700 park fee? ( not sure what the average price is). $1000 in payouts....worst case , leaving $300 for td......tiniest extra cost could make it a wash. best case , $1000 for td. Not a bad weekend for the average working stiff.

Not to quibble, but it's more than a weekend's work in most cases and, in some cases, a lot more than a weekend's work. There are a lot of variables from event to event, but the actual numbers are probably more like: worst case, break even; best case, perhaps $500.

How much a TD's time worth?

Between the pre- and post-tournament prep time for things like sanctioning paperwork, course prep, player pack prep, pre-registration, making and posting flyers, preparing and printing a caddy book (even if it's just a half sheet of paper) listing OB, mandos, special conditions, etc., lining up sponsors and volunteers, etc., and up-front out-of-pocket costs for supplies (scoreboard, scorecards, pencils, plastic bags to hold the scorecards in case of inclement weather, signs, OB markers, air horn/noise maker, etc.) and fuel (what, you think all the running back and forth to the course in the weeks and days leading up to the tournament don't burn gas?), I'll bet that, even in a best case scenario, most TDs would be lucky to clear $1/hour.

 

[DavidSauls]

To be fair, both the expenses and time investment vary greatly.

Some courses are maintained by parks departments such that they're pretty much tournament-ready, all of the time. Others require an enormous amount of work, either grooming or setting up (O.B., etc.)

Where TDs have merchandise on consignment for players packs and payouts, they don't have to worry about overstock, and it's easier to come out ahead. Where parks require TDs to pay big fees to rent the course, it's much harder.

For these and dozens of other reasons, it's hard to say how much time a TD invests, or how easy it is (or isn't) to make any profit.

What's fair to say is that, whatever was involved, the TD did it, and the tournament is available for the players to enjoy for that reason.

 

[Steve West]

For some real numbers: I actually recorded about 2,800 hours and 2,800 miles driven either working on the courses or getting the parks departments to get the courses ready for Am Worlds. (I know at least two other people did even more.)

So, I only get credit for the 5 days of actual competition? Good thing I was having fun.

 

[DavidSauls]

You're skewing the averages, you know.

 

[Steve West]

I know, sorry. I'll try to put in more time in the upcoming year to keep up with the actual TD's.

Also, that's a typo. It's only 1800 hours.

 

[btothej89]

I am running my first Event as a TD this Saturday. During the last couple of weeks my respect for other TD´s has grown. It is indeed a whole lot of work. I really hope i can satisfy the Players with a well planned course and a nice tournament in general. So far i haven´t received any negativity from the playerbase, but we will see how things are going after the tournament.

But there is one thing that is already pissing me off! "Mr knowitall" the kind of guy that always complains about how messed up everything will be, but refuses to help you when the tournaments starts.

People that expect everything to be on point and can´t understand that, while you try your best to run a nice little tournament for people to enjoy the sport of disc glf, sometimes you have other important things to do as well e.g. taking care of your family or just working in your god damn Job.

i am really looking forward to the event, but there is already one thing i have learned: Get rid off negative people that just try to drag you down. People should be happy that we as TD´s take the effort and time to run tournaments so that others can enjoy the game of disc golf.

 

[DSmith]

Deep breaths. Happy thoughts.

 

[JC17393]

I am running my first Event as a TD this Saturday. During the last couple of weeks my respect for other TD´s has grown. It is indeed a whole lot of work. I really hope i can satisfy the Players with a well planned course and a nice tournament in general. So far i haven´t received any negativity from the playerbase, but we will see how things are going after the tournament.

But there is one thing that is already pissing me off! "Mr knowitall" the kind of guy that always complains about how messed up everything will be, but refuses to help you when the tournaments starts.

People that expect everything to be on point and can´t understand that, while you try your best to run a nice little tournament for people to enjoy the sport of disc glf, sometimes you have other important things to do as well e.g. taking care of your family or just working in your god damn Job.

i am really looking forward to the event, but there is already one thing i have learned: Get rid off negative people that just try to drag you down. People should be happy that we as TD´s take the effort and time to run tournaments so that others can enjoy the game of disc golf.

There's only one person worse than your "Mr knowitall". And that's the Mr Knowitall that never hesitates to critique little details of the event, and then on game day is nowhere to be found. I don't mean he is off playing/practicing or hanging out in the parking lot during check-in or the lunch break or before/during awards instead of offering to help with something (and then crying that things are running too slow), I mean he's not even there to play the tournament at all. He nitpicks things to death during the lead-up and never had any intention to play in the first place.

That guy is also usually the first one to run to the internets with some complaint or pseudo-controversy after the tournament, because he got a text or call from someone at the event where they mentioned something and he decides to blow it out of proportion relying on third and fourth party info. That guy is the absolute best.

 

[CaptainAnhyzer]

I am running my first Event as a TD this Saturday. During the last couple of weeks my respect for other TD´s has grown. It is indeed a whole lot of work. I really hope i can satisfy the Players with a well planned course and a nice tournament in general. So far i haven´t received any negativity from the playerbase, but we will see how things are going after the tournament.

But there is one thing that is already pissing me off! "Mr knowitall" the kind of guy that always complains about how messed up everything will be, but refuses to help you when the tournaments starts.

People that expect everything to be on point and can´t understand that, while you try your best to run a nice little tournament for people to enjoy the sport of disc glf, sometimes you have other important things to do as well e.g. taking care of your family or just working in your god damn Job.

i am really looking forward to the event, but there is already one thing i have learned: Get rid off negative people that just try to drag you down. People should be happy that we as TD´s take the effort and time to run tournaments so that others can enjoy the game of disc golf.

Make sure to remind yourself that you cannot please everyone.
Tell the complainers to sit down and help or STFU.

 

[John Rock]

Something else that hasn't been mentioned yet, but is a real strain on trying to organize a bigger event. That's the guy/guys who are very vocal about how to do something for the event and they volunteer weeks in advance. They like to tell others how much they are doing for the event, and act like they are a major factor. But when it actually comes time to do the work they volunteered for, they have something come up and can't deliver on what they volunteered to do. I don't know if other areas have these kinds of people but I seem to run into quite a few. On planned work days they show up only to play the course and try to convince others to "let's play today and work another day".

 

[Royal Hill]

I like this as this turns into a TD/volunteer commiseration thread

An idea for those having feedback surveys or suggestion boxes: Make up the little form, maybe third page size slip- have the area at top for name and event.
Have the header for "comments"

then in the bottom third of the slip have two checkbox lines
[] Yes!, I can be helpful in seeing if this feedback can be incorporated
[] No, I want someone else to do the work

Or have some of these slips "at the ready" in your pocket if you think it would hit home. You could make a great point if a grumpy makes a snide written comment, and neglects the bottom checkboxes... "Thanks.. oh wait... looks like you missed the bottom part..."

 

[WhiteyBear]

Some of the best pieces of advice for TD's I can give;

#1 Whatever you choose to do, and decisions you make, make it final. Don't ask players what they want for format, players pack etc, you'll get torn in 10 different directions and seem like a person who can't make up their mind. No one likes a TD who can't make a choice.

#2 Know the rules of the game, and enforce the rules of the game. You aren't there, in a sanctioned tournament, to be buddy-buddy with everyone so that they can walk all over you because you are "soft". Be kind, have respect for everyone there, and treat everyone justly.

#3 Get all your paperwork, facebook pages, and signups done EARLY and with FAQ's up for everyone to see. Don't bend over backwards the last 1-2 days before a tournament, when lazy people call/text/email you at all hours of the day trying to figure out how to signup. Copy/paste the link into the text or email, and tell them where to find it. Don't coddle them just because they decided to call you at 1130PM and then get mad because you won't spoon feed them all the details. I would HEAVILY advise you put up a refund policy (especially for non-sanctioned tournaments). If someone pre-pays for a non-sanctioned tournament, and doesn't show and doesn't contact me in any way to say they aren't coming, then they get a players pack and zero refund. If the tournament fills up, they lose their spot, they lose their players pack, and get 1/2 refund. If you put this out there in big bold letters, well ahead of time, you'll be just fine.

#4 If you have a tournament larger than 20 people, DON'T PLAY IN IT. No one likes to wait around for the TD to finish to get paid out. Nothing irks me more than sitting by TD central, with 50 other people, doing nothing because the TD is out playing and nothing can be done until they get back. Make sure you have a Co-TD to help you out. And "pay them" in merch.

#5 "Pay" your help. For some reason TD's get flack for paying help in cash. But if you give them 20-60 bucks in merch it's no big deal. Did someone volunteer? Give them $25 in credit, do you have a Co-TD? At least triple that. If players have a problem with that, tell them to volunteer next time, and ask for 10 hours of their life on a prime weekend day. If they still argue, don't even mind them. Happy help = a better run tournament = happy players = better run tournaments in the future.