Unsanctioned division

[JeremyKShort]

My question is, can you have an Unsanctioned division in a PDGA c tier?

We hosted our first tournament at the local university last year. They want us to make it an annual event. Last year we considered getting it a c tier, even talked to the local PDGA rep, but we decided against it. The vast majority of our local players are not PDGA members. It's generally a pretty casual group, but they support the local events. They don't care to go out and play other tournaments, but always come out for our events. We didn't want to hit them all up with the non member fee, and couldn't drop the price to accommodate it since it was a fundraiser.

Someone asked if there could be one division that's not PDGA sanctioned. Basically, as far as PDGA is concerned, this division doesn't exist. They don't keep track of ratings or anything, we have to handle it all on our own. We'd have the regular divisions as a c-tier, but the bottom division would be replaced with the Unsanctioned.

The few that really want to compete with the top guys and aren't PDGA members would likely be willing to pony up the extra $10 to play in that division.

I just want to make sure there isn't some PDGA rule or policy against it before pursuing it. I'm not sure if it has been done, or can be done.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Look at the Competition Endowment Program where the $10 non-member fees do not have to be collected and the $2 player fees are donated to the charity: http://www.pdga.com/td/pdga-competition-endowment-program

 

[DavidSauls]

I am certain there is a rule against having an unsanctioned division, or perhaps players who aren't part of the tournament. I can't put my finger on it, but I encounter it every year, and it reminds me of when, years ago, I did exactly that.

We run an event under the Competition Endowment program Chuck mentioned, and you should definitely look into it. But you have to give a certain percentage of entries to the charity, and it has to be a recognized charity (check with the PDGA for details).

 

[keith johnson]

My question is, can you have an Unsanctioned division in a PDGA c tier?

No you can't by the strict letter of the Sanctioning agreement.

There are ways to accomplish the same thing though as Chuck and David mention.

 

[JeremyKShort]

That might actually be the way to go. It's done as a fundraiser for the University, which is a private institution run by a church, so it's a 501c3. We give most of the money over to them anyway, so if they count Southwestern as a charity we would get what we need accomplished. I hadn't heard of this program before, but I think it'll work well.

 

[SonicGuy]

Why can't you just run a concurrent unrelated tournament with only one division on the same course at the same time as your pdga tournament?

 

[DavidSauls]

Why can't you just run a concurrent unrelated tournament with only one division on the same course at the same time as your pdga tournament?

Because you agree not to when you sanction.

My guess is that this is at least partly related to the insurance that comes with sanctioning.

Of course, you can do this, and the PDGA Police aren't likely to charge you. But you can't do it within the rules.

 

[SonicGuy]

Because you agree not to when you sanction.

Swear I'm not trolling (usually a sure fire sign someone is trolling), where do you agree to that?

 

[scarpfish]

Swear I'm not trolling (usually a sure fire sign someone is trolling), where do you agree to that?

When you make out your sanctioning agreement application. Specifically section 7 under terms and conditions.

 

[SonicGuy]

Ok, I get that, but if you run an unsanctioned division as its own event that just so happens to be at the same course you would be clear, no? You would just need to make sure it was specifically unaffiliated with the sanctioned event. Obviously against the spirit of the thing but life is a technical endeavor.

 

[ejvogie]

List one of your friends as the TD of the unsanctioned event

 

[DavidSauls]

Ok, I get that, but if you run an unsanctioned division as its own event that just so happens to be at the same course you would be clear, no? You would just need to make sure it was specifically unaffiliated with the sanctioned event. Obviously against the spirit of the thing but life is a technical endeavor.

As long as you can reconcile it with your agreement:


I agree that all players competing in events will enter in an officially recognized and reported division. Due to tour insurance liability issues, non-sanctioned or unofficial divisions will not be allowed. (Not applicable for events outside of the United States and Canada)

I guess it's up to you how you want to split those hairs.

 

[krupicka]

The problem is insurance. PDGA Insurance would not cover the unsanctioned portion of your event.

 

[prerube]

If you run an unsanctioned event on the same day on the same course and a player in the second event gets hurt, who will cover the insurance? If a player is hit by an unsanctioned players disc, the PDGA insurance may not even cover it. It is a liability. If you only have 18 holes and it is a PDGA sactioned event, you should not have that many open holes to run a second event. It cheats the PDGA players out of payout.

 

[ejvogie]

If you only have 18 holes and it is a PDGA sactioned event, you should not have that many open holes to run a second event. It cheats the PDGA players out of payout.

Do all tournaments in you area fill? Some of our local C-Tiers are lucky to get 50 people

 

[prerube]

Do all tournaments in you area fill? Some of our local C-Tiers are lucky to get 50 people

well who wants to play in Ohio?

Most fill, but tourneys are not as frequent in MD. But if you are not filling tourneys why allow a group of people to play in a second tournament instead of adding them to the event? having and event with 50 people and a second event with 10 makes no sense. Make one event with 60 people. especially since those 10 risk you losing PDGA insurance and you are responsible when they get hurt.

 

[SonicGuy]

Why don't clubs have umbrella policies that cover all of their tournaments? Is pdga insurance really that great?

 

[DavidSauls]

Why don't clubs have umbrella policies that cover all of their tournaments? Is pdga insurance really that great?

Not all tournaments are run by clubs.
Few clubs run enough tournaments to justify the cost of stand-alone insurance.
PDGA insurance is a bargain.

 

[prerube]

If you purchase club insurance it only covers club members. you can not invite friends or accept walk-ons.

We have had the local park purchase insurance, we have had players sign waivers, but the point is why are these outlyer players so special they need their own division?

 

[DavidSauls]

If you purchase club insurance it only covers club members. you can not invite friends or accept walk-ons.

We have had the local park purchase insurance, we have had players sign waivers, but the point is why are these outlyer players so special they need their own division?

No, you can purchase event liability policies for a single event, or the club can purchase a general liability policy that will provide coverage for the events. The problem is, these are commercial insurance policies with high minimum premiums. It varies from state-to-state, but here it would likely be at least $500.