USDGC results-exactly what people were worried about?

[joe_kool315]

made me blow my lid.

Ronda ... blow her lid ... nooo say it isn't so.

I am very proud of my brother just for even going!

All of us here in the FWB area are proud of him for holding it together and playing so well!

Especially given the miles and miles of yellow ropes used ... I've never seen so much OB!

 

[rkbraves]

@ Mr. Kool...... funny!
@ craftsman... Right on! Hope you get your course,beer and t-shirt! If you are ever down in the panhandle of FL, lets us know!

 

[DavidSauls]

@biscoe and other TD do non pdga tourneys tend to break even or make a little more money? ace races? just wondering since maybe the system is broken and this is the wake up call from innova.

There's no one answer to this question.

In general, PDGA tournaments draw more players. More Am players means tournament makes more money; more Pro players doesn't.

Non-PDGA have more flexbility in payouts, so they can make more or less money (assuming they draw the same number of players).

PDGA fees factor in, of course, but to a lesser degree.

 

[biscoe]

it is easier to break even on non-pdga simply because i have always been less ambitious in running them... the fact that i generally lose a bit of money on the hawk hollow open is somewhat due to the fact that we do things like feed the entire field dinner, have hot pepper eating, etc.- it would be relatively simple to run a cookie cutter event and break even but that has never been something i've wanted to do...

 

[1978]

Like I said earlier,

I think the handicaps should be determined by the rating of the tournament an individual qualified at (which in my case it would have been 940, instead of 880). I also believe that anyone that has a rating that would start with a projected par lower then course par, that player should start at par (ie: Feldberg at 68 instead of 62). It's still amazing that he stayed in the hunt and was able to shoot the course record 56 with stroke and distance! They are very good at what they do, and this experience gave me a new respect for that and even more respect for those pros that attended!

I don't think they should have tested this format at the usdgc first, but I do think it could bring excitement to the event if done correctly! It's the DGU system that is flawed, not the format!

Like I stated earlier, the reality is what it is!

Just call me Barry Bonds, guilty of performance enhancing handicap! Lol

John Key ***************

I posted that a year ago on the PDGA website. Why test something like this on an event so prestigious. I thought they should have picked a region, sponsored 4 qualifying tournaments sponsored then had a final event...see how things worked out, who won and how. THEN fixed it. Seems like it is odd to "try" new things at what used to be a major and then say, oh well, we will change it next year. I know DGU has been handicapping for a while now...however last year the USDGC was actually played by mainly pro's who qualified. Very few of the qualified players were beginners quickly improving...of course there was the state rep/NT TD component that get cut after day 2... but that handicapping kind of worked (for the side pot that DGU ran) because all the players were well set into their ratings...and winning in that environment ACTUALLY meant that you played above your head. When they do this again, I think you should have a minimum 12 rounds within a year to qualify.

 

[Script]

What I believe should be done is if you are top 5 in the performance edition, you qualify for the regular edition of the tourney the next year. That would have a lot more meaning to people. Yes, you would get 5 people that potentially suck, but obviously they can play to their potential at that course better than anyone else and I can assure they'd get way better in a year to not embarres themselves.

Also, why not use the PE version to help fund the regular version? It's still hard to believe that the USDGC is losing money selling rocs and having such a steep entry fee. I'm sure it's over 200,000 brought in and at least 1/2 is profit.

 

[bradharris]

Also, why not use the PE version to help fund the regular version? It's still hard to believe that the USDGC is losing money selling rocs and having such a steep entry fee. I'm sure it's over 200,000 brought in and at least 1/2 is profit.

78% of all statistics are made up on the spot...

How about some real numbers:

700 Rocs made and sold at $25 = $17,500.
123 Competitors paying $100 = $12,300.

Total Revenue = $29,800.

There's probably some additional money from sponsors, but it's not much.

 

[DavidSauls]

I'm sure it's over 200,000 brought in and at least 1/2 is profit.

I'll take you at your word since you're sure. If so, I'd think we can count on more of the same. I know I'd be willing to run a tournament under ANY format for $100,000 profit.

 

[Three Putt]

Also, why not use the PE version to help fund the regular version? It's still hard to believe that the USDGC is losing money selling rocs and having such a steep entry fee. I'm sure it's over 200,000 brought in and at least 1/2 is profit.

So, you think Innova had a successful tournament from a PR standpoint that players loved that was making a $100,000 profit? If that was the case, why would they have pulled the plug?

 

[oddjob]

Also have to look at the opportunity cost of not making rocs regular production

 

[1978]

78% of all statistics are made up on the spot...

How about some real numbers:

700 Rocs made and sold at $25 = $17,500.
123 Competitors paying $100 = $12,300.

Total Revenue = $29,800.

There's probably some additional money from sponsors, but it's not much.

Ha! yea, well you forgot that they made $170,000 selling hot dogs.

10 employees for 3 weeks to set up and tear down is $15K, there is cost to manufacture the CFR roc's, and I'll bet that they don't get the property, police, carts for free. Running those carts costs $1000's of dollars alone in gasoline. 20 carts @ 5 gallons/ day/ 4 days = $1,400 in gasoline, then you got string and rope and new powder coating on 18 baskets every year.

When the USDGC was for Pro's, you had to payout 100% on top of all those costs. Anyways, I don't agree with the format, but Innova isn't making money on these events, "im sure" of that.


*there is some revenue from ticket sales and parking*

 

[1978]

Also have to look at the opportunity cost of not making rocs regular production

I love this quote.

For years Innova lost sales, only allowing Champ and Glow Champ rocs to be sold at the USDGC. They did this for us, for the fans of the sport, and collectors. I never thought about that part.

 

[Script]

Ha! yea, well you forgot that they made $170,000 selling hot dogs.

10 employees for 3 weeks to set up and tear down is $15K, there is cost to manufacture the CFR roc's, and I'll bet that they don't get the property, police, carts for free. Running those carts costs $1000's of dollars alone in gasoline. 20 carts @ 5 gallons/ day/ 4 days = $1,400 in gasoline, then you got string and rope and new powder coating on 18 baskets every year.

When the USDGC was for Pro's, you had to payout 100% on top of all those costs. Anyways, I don't agree with the format, but Innova isn't making money on these events, "im sure" of that.


*there is some revenue from ticket sales and parking*

I'm sorry, but it's crazy to think that Innova can't profit from an event where they sell rocs (don't know how many, so we'll go with 700 making that 17.5k) and each competitor entry was $250 at 200 ppl (We're looking at last year here, that's the format in question)

Those 2 numbers alone add up to 67500, not including any additional sponsors or last chance qualifying money. Yes, I realize there are costs and payout to be had, but even at that low estimate, if Innova was losing money with it's old format, maybe they shouldn't be running tournaments.

And ropes are re-used from previous years, so an accurate estimate for that cost varies based on the life span of the ropes.

Some stats are made up, but this forum is not the only place I find my information.

 

[Three Putt]

if Innova was losing money with it's old format, maybe they shouldn't be running tournaments.

Uh, I think that's pretty much what they decided.

 

[joesouthfla]

I like the format, just not at the USDGC. Do it a a less prestigious event.

 

[1978]

Last year off the PDGA event results:
185 players @ $200 each. $37,000
Payout totalled $75,000
= Difference of $38,000.

So where is the $200,000 coming from?

700 Rocs at $25 each = 17,500 Which BTW is Innova's money that they could have kept so you can actually consider it a $17,500 loss. Then include the cost to maintain, set-up and run the event.

Yea, threeputt is right! The event is meant to increase sales they don't do it to make money at the event...however, does the USDGC bring Innova 10,000 additional disc sales, no. Why run it. For what I feel about the format, hats off to Innova for running the event so long and trying to find ways to continue the event at a more reasonable cost.

 

[1978]

People just can't think far enough to understand this... On top of paying employees and all the costs I just mentioned, you have a players pack (some donated I know) 100's of pull overs and shirts for all the volunteers, lunches for the volunteers for 4 days, gas, advertising (including the signs on 77) rent for the building, property, and venue, caddy books... the list of expenses goes on and adds up fast.

 

[Script]

Last year off the PDGA event results:
185 players @ $200 each. $37,000
Payout totalled $75,000
= Difference of $38,000.

I would think that the payout would correspond to the money made, therefore you are ridiculously far off on something.

And to think that Innova is losing money by selling rocs... laff

 

[Script]

People just can't think far enough to understand this... On top of paying employees and all the costs I just mentioned, you have a players pack (some donated I know) 100's of pull overs and shirts for all the volunteers, lunches for the volunteers for 4 days, gas, advertising (including the signs on 77) rent for the building, property, and venue, caddy books... the list of expenses goes on and adds up fast.

It's comments like this where you piss people off, myself included.

 

[oddjob]

If it was profitable for them, they'd keep doing it. This isn't rocket surgery folks.