When Can Curtesy Violations be Called?

[davetherocketguy]

Not sure where to find this in the rules...So if someone could help me out here.

Can I call a courtesy violation during a players meeting prior to a league round starting? Similarly, can I do the same after the league round but prior to completing collecting all the scores and such?

For reference I am a rules official and league director. And as a corollary question: Since I am an official and the LD I do not need the courtesy seconded by another player - right? Just want to make sure I am reading 812.C correctly.

 

[JedV]

https://simple.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtsey

I dunno. Wikipedia doesn't say anything about curtsey violations.

 

[davetherocketguy]

https://simple.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtsey

I dunno. Wikipedia doesn't say anything about curtsey violations.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

You call a curtsey violation when it's too short a skirt and people see your ass.

Or Ulibari is there and you don't show appropriate respect to the queen.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

A courtsy violation is when you forget your anniversary...

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

And a Cortesy violation is when you are up on that island and you don't drop by Dave's course for a round and a chinwag.

Reminds me of corriadoo, correvorrie and other points of corridor etiquette... a correvorrie is when you spot a friend down the hall and pretend not to see them so you don't have to halloo all the way down the hall.

A corriadoo is when you accidentally make eye contact and have to greet each other from 40' away until you pass..

....Ok I'm done now.

 

[davetherocketguy]

 

[Steve West]

There is no specific time limit. However, certain violations can only happen at certain times or in certain situations. In general, if the player can violate the rule, they can be called for violating the rule.

Perhaps you could be more specific about the violation you are thinking about calling. If it's a real situation where something is on the line, send it into the Rules Committee for clarification.

 

[davetherocketguy]

There is no specific time limit. However, certain violations can only happen at certain times or in certain situations. In general, if the player can violate the rule, they can be called for violating the rule.

Perhaps you could be more specific about the violation you are thinking about calling. If it's a real situation where something is on the line, send it into the Rules Committee for clarification.

Let's say we have everyone gathered together for the informal players meeting before a league round and someone says something - very sexist which in my situation has happened several times and I am looking to put and end to it. This to me is unsportsmanlike according to 812. No one has started play but its super duper irritating to everyone else there.

There are multiple ways I can deal with this situation so I am just exploring this option which if I am allowed to do would probably get the point across the best. I'll contact the rules committee as well.

 

[Steve West]

Let's say we have everyone gathered together for the informal players meeting before a league round and someone says something - very sexist which in my situation has happened several times and I am looking to put and end to it. This to me is unsportsmanlike according to 812. No one has started play but its super duper irritating to everyone else there.

There are multiple ways I can deal with this situation so I am just exploring this option which if I am allowed to do would probably get the point across the best. I'll contact the rules committee as well.

Sometimes you just have to deal with people as people, not disc golfers. Hopefully, a lot of the other people would provide support.

 

[araytx]

Let's say we have everyone gathered together for the informal players meeting before a league round and someone says something - very sexist which in my situation has happened several times and I am looking to put and end to it. This to me is unsportsmanlike according to 812. No one has started play but its super duper irritating to everyone else there.

There are multiple ways I can deal with this situation so I am just exploring this option which if I am allowed to do would probably get the point across the best. I'll contact the rules committee as well.

Sometimes you just have to deal with people as people, not disc golfers. Hopefully, a lot of the other people would provide support.

I personally would not call that a courtesy violation -- though it may well be discourteous. The context is different. If I had a player like that and had complaints about what he/she said, I'd ask them over privately and tell them it needed to stop or they would no longer be invited to this league. That, I hope, would be more punitive than a stroke here or there.

 

[davetherocketguy]

I personally would not call that a courtesy violation -- though it may well be discourteous. The context is different. If I had a player like that and had complaints about what he/she said, I'd ask them over privately and tell them it needed to stop or they would no longer be invited to this league. That, I hope, would be more punitive than a stroke here or there.

This is my exact plan B - and certainly the most likely plan of action I'll take. I was looking at stroke penalties as plan A simply because this fella takes league rounds VERY seriously - a little too seriously IMHO. I know I failed to mention this before but I've already asked him once (nicely) to cut it out. Maybe he didn't think I was serious. This time I won't be as nice - just very firm and real serious.

That, and I am really curious as to what the PDGA has to say about this so I know my options for future situations.

 

[BillFleming]

There are no real rules about being discourteous, racist, sexist, ageist, just being plain rude. I agree with the 'warn' the person, and next time ban them from the league.

 

[biscoe]

That, and I am really curious as to what the PDGA has to say about this so I know my options for future situations.

I honestly hope the PDGA has no input for you. IMO this kind of stuff is best policed at the local level and the PDGA should have no real sway outside of the rules of play. Since it is during an (by your description) "informal" player's meeting the waters become somewhat muddy.

Years ago the rules included some crap about player's behaviors off the course overnight- I believe that to be a very slippery slope.

Is it a club event? If so I would say it is the responsibility of the club to make the decisions. Is it "davetherocketguy's" event alone? In that case do what you feel is right.

Were it me I would call the individual out in public the next time it occurs given that it is something I find offensive which is a pretty high bar. I cannot begin to count the number of people I have told directly to shut up while I am talking in player's meetings over the years.

 

[brutalbrutus]

Maybe he didn't think I was serious. This time I won't be as nice - just very firm and real serious.

Am I the only one who had this scene pop in their mind while reading this?

Tell the man to not be a sexist pig. Then add the words, "or else"

 

[Nova P]

How about just loudly interjecting "come on, let's not do that today" when someone publicly says something f---ed up for attention. Shame 'em without being a scold.

If that fails, try booing, or mooing, or mockery.

 

[ToddL]

PDGA Competition Manual has several rules that reference the enforcement timeframe as between the two-minute warning and turning in the scorecard. I would only call courtesy violations inside that time frame as well.

3.03 Player Misconduct
B.5: Public display or use of alcohol, even where otherwise lawful or permitted, from the two-minute warning until the player's scorecard is submitted at an event...
C.3: Public display or use of illegal or prohibited substances in violation of any applicable law (national/federal, state/provincial, local/city/county, et al) from the two-minute warning to the time the player's scorecard is submitted.
C.4: Public display or use of alcohol at PDGA events sanctioned at B-Tier or higher, or of marijuana at PDGA events sanctioned at any Tier level, even where otherwise lawful or permitted, from the two-minute warning to the time the player's scorecard is submitted.
3.05 Carts, Caddies and Groups
C: Players choosing to use a caddie will be solely responsible for their caddie's conduct from the two minute warning until the player's card is turned in.

 

[mark996]

I was thinking 2 minute warning onward for an actual courtesy violation. At the meeting etc it's called just being a dick. If you're the league director, direct the league. If you don't want that kind of stuff happening make an announcement during the meeting that it won't be tolerated any longer and any subsequent crap will be handled swiftly. If they're saying sexist things and you're hearing it, others surely are too and that's driving away people from the sport.

 

[Dcinmd]

Were it me I would call the individual out in public the next time it occurs given that it is something I find offensive which is a pretty high bar. I cannot begin to count the number of people I have told directly to shut up while I am talking in player's meetings over the years.

I believe the count is up to 6,184 by last count.

But seriously it is one the best things about the tournaments you run.

 

[Muddyboots]

How about just loudly interjecting "come on, let's not do that today" when someone publicly says something f---ed up for attention. Shame 'em without being a scold.

If that fails, try booing, or mooing, or mockery.

As a cow, I find this offensive. Let's not do that today. ~s