Discs with a woman's name...

[Three Putt]

Lol...when I started playing, I'm pretty sure there was no production run of a golf disc with anybody's name on it. Maybe Ed. There were those blunt putts with his name on them, not sure if they came out before I started playing or not.

From my anecdotal experience retailing golf discs, the signature factor has to do with new/casual players. The kind of folks that would not be on a disc golf forum. It's more of the "You should get this here Ken Klee-Mo disc." "Who is that?" "Says here he is a 12-time champion. It must be good." That kind of stuff.

For me, I throw Valks. I threw Valks before they had a signature. I threw Valks when they had a signature. I throw Valks now that they no longer have a signature. The signature is a non-factor; I throw what I throw. Most people who actually play do the same.

I throw KC Pro Rocs. I do not throw Roc3's. This is not a reflection of my liking Ken Climo more than Paul McBeth. Neither one of them really have anything to do with the fact that I tend to throw nose up and the good old Roc responds to that better than a Roc3. If Innova decided to switch the signatures and have PM Pro Rancho Rocs and KC Roc3's, I'd be throwing Paul McBeth discs. Once you know what you want to throw, the signature is a non-factor. The signature is more of a factor when you don't know what you are buying.

 

[ohtobediscing]

When I started playing, the only golf discs were whatever Frisbee you owned. #geezersdiscgolfclub

 

[haier2]

The first disc I bought for myself was a JK Aviar.. After feeling KC plastic and other putters I thought the JK seemed like it would "grab the chains".

I know I thought something about it being a woman's signature disc, but the feel of the disc was much more important to me, even as a newbie.

 

[Three Putt]

It might have been my observation while selling discs that players who were not "in the know" about disc golf (i.e. 85% of my customers) tended to think the JK Valk was a "women's disc" and should be avoided (since 99% of my customers were male) that caused this thread. That's anecdotal evidence for sure, but here is my thinking.

1. Innova really doesn't seem to have a problem giving signature discs. They gave signature deals to guys with one championship, so it seems like they don't have a problem doing it. Wiggins got one for the distance record. It's something they do fairly freely. We have to assume that it is "good for business" i.e. helps sell those discs.

2. Innova gave Juliana Korver signature discs when she came over as a 3X Women's champion. Since then they have NOT given signature discs to Des Reading or Val Jenkins when they also had 3 championships. If a 1X Borg or Avery disc wasn't an issue, why are 3X Women's Championship discs a problem. You have to at least entertain the possibility that sales of the JK discs were disappointing when compared to the sale of Men's signature discs and would be "bad for business." Otherwise, they are just misogynistic pigs. If that was the case, why would they bother to sponsor women at all?

3. Des Reading is the more interesting example since Innova seems to want to reward the Readings and support them for what they have done. The Readings DO have a signature disc, but it is not a 3x Des Reading disc. It's the Yeti, a putter celebrating a putting contest that nobody cares about (seriously, can you name anyone else who has won it?) that Jay is the 4X champion of. If Innova wanted to support the Readings AND they thought a 3X Women's Champion disc would help sales, why in the world would they not have gone that route instead of the Yeti? Again, you have to entertain the possibility that Innova from experience knows that a great disc like the Valk would see it's sales suffer from having a Woman's name on it so they figured out a way to support the Readings with a disc featuring Jay's name. Otherwise the idea that Jay has a signature disc and Des does not is preposterous. Once you allow the idea that the Yeti is a better business decision to get $$$ in the Readings pockets, it doesn't seem so odd.

Again, it's anecdotal. Innova doesn't talk about sales figures and they don't have to. We are not going to know the whys and hows of signature discs. However, Innova supports a women's team and they are a successful business. I have to think that if there was no downside to having a woman's name on a disc, they would have done it for Des and Val.

 

[Beable]

I voted "don't care". I do throw the Diamond though, which is supposedly for women and children.

 

[Hampstead]

What is interesting/puzzling/whatever you want to call it, is the fact that JK doesn't play much. She played 2 sanctioned events in 2016, 3 events in 2015 and 3 in 2014. Yet, she still has a signature disc.

Val, on the other hand, made over $12,000 playing 16 events last year, $15,000 playing 20 events in 2015, and $13,000 playing 20 events in 2014.

Prior to the quick search, I honestly thought Juliana had retired and wasn't playing anymore.

Considering all that, it's just a bit puzzling that Val never really got a signature disc. (Yes, I know that she kinda sorta did, but not really)

 

[bradharris]

Early on in my playing days I had a Champion Valk with a woman's signature on it (I think it was JK). I always felt funny about the fact that I was throwing a "girl's disc."

Today, that mentality is gone, but I think I still do have somewhat of an unconscious aversion to any female signature disc.

 

[Mulligan]

2. Innova gave Juliana Korver signature discs when she came over as a 3X Women's champion. Since then they have NOT given signature discs to Des Reading or Val Jenkins when they also had 3 championships.

3x Val TLs do exist.
http://dgustore.com/index.php/valarie-jenkins-champion-tl.html

 

[Broken Shoulder]

3. Des Reading is the more interesting example since Innova seems to want to reward the Readings and support them for what they have done. The Readings DO have a signature disc, but it is not a 3x Des Reading disc. It's the Yeti, a putter celebrating a putting contest that nobody cares about (seriously, can you name anyone else who has won it?) that Jay is the 4X champion of. If Innova wanted to support the Readings AND they thought a 3X Women's Champion disc would help sales, why in the world would they not have gone that route instead of the Yeti? Again, you have to entertain the possibility that Innova from experience knows that a great disc like the Valk would see it's sales suffer from having a Woman's name on it so they figured out a way to support the Readings with a disc featuring Jay's name. Otherwise the idea that Jay has a signature disc and Des does not is preposterous. Once you allow the idea that the Yeti is a better business decision to get $$$ in the Readings pockets, it doesn't seem so odd.

Weston Isaacs.
I only know that because it said it on a couple of the medium Pures I had.
Shruggie.

 

[Mulligan]

3. Des Reading is the more interesting example since Innova seems to want to reward the Readings and support them for what they have done. The Readings DO have a signature disc, but it is not a 3x Des Reading disc. It's the Yeti, .

Also, Des has a signature swirly star Firebird disc avail right now. Looks bada** if you ask me.
http://proshop.innovadiscs.com/star-firebird-des-reading-tour-series.html

 

[Three Putt]

Tour series discs and signature discs are different things.

 

[lyleoross]

I call my favorite driver Edna. She's a beauty. Sweetest little disc you ever saw. Like my cars, all my discs are female. And when I throw them I talk to them.

"Come on girl, turn over now. You can do it!" Works every time.

 

[teemkey]

I looked up 4 FPO signature discs from Innova:

Valerie Jenkins TL: available weight 173-175
Sarah Cunningham Wraith: available weight 173-175
Hannah Leatherman Tern: available weight 173-175
Des Reading Firebird: available weight 173-175

Most women I know don't throw max weight. Innova even recommends lighter plastic for women

Provide appropriate equipment.

Ensure that women players have the opportunity to play with discs that match their skill level. Offer lightweight, beginner-friendly discs like the Leopard, Valkyrie, Archangel, Shark or Aviar. You may also give away used discs or have "loaner" discs available for the new women players. By providing suitable discs for new women players, you increase the chance they will have a more enjoyable experience.

Does this mean Innova's target demographic for their women's tour series discs is men?

 

[Mulligan]

Does this mean Innova's target demographic for their women's tour series discs is men?

Wow, thats a great point.

 

[ru4por]

I looked up 4 FPO signature discs from Innova:

Valerie Jenkins TL: available weight 173-175
Sarah Cunningham Wraith: available weight 173-175
Hannah Leatherman Tern: available weight 173-175
Des Reading Firebird: available weight 173-175

Most women I know don't throw max weight. Innova even recommends lighter plastic for women




Does this mean Innova's target demographic for their women's tour series discs is men?

Considering the vast majority of their disc sales are to men, wouldn't that make sense?

 

[Mulligan]

Yeah, but his point is they aren't even offering lower weights as an option.

 

[Lazerface]

This question is much better suited for the "newer" and very recreational disc golfer who likely has no knowledge of the men or women on the disc. It could very well make a difference to them, meaning they may interpret the woman's signature as a woman's disc.

For the diehards on this forum, of course it makes no difference because we know the signature discs (excluding tour series) for the most part, are just production discs with extra writing. Generally, we know there is really no such thing as a "woman's" disc. I guess common sense is enough to deduce that, but consumer behavior is, well, complicated.

If the generic male consumer walking into a major sporting goods store with little knowledge of the product sees a woman's name on it, I think it could matter.

 

[Mulligan]

^Also an excellent point.

 

[SD86]

I looked up 4 FPO signature discs from Innova:

Valerie Jenkins TL: available weight 173-175
Sarah Cunningham Wraith: available weight 173-175
Hannah Leatherman Tern: available weight 173-175
Des Reading Firebird: available weight 173-175

Those are all tour series discs, not production signature discs. There's a difference.

 

[DiscJunkie]

First, I don't believe Innova is stupid or biased.
From what I have seen, they would sell a disc with Hillary Clinton's signature on it, if it would sell...

I'm not saying that Val isn't deserving,
but,
if Innova is trying to make money (in a tough and crowded market) and putting a female's name on a disc is going to kill sales...

Perhaps some creativity is called for.
If Innova wants to keep their new Pro female players happy, and attract more females to the game, they may need to get creative with compensation or tour discs or marketing.
And while I'm handing out advice...be smart and get Val back (whatever it takes!!)