Discs with a woman's name...

[teemkey]

Those are all tour series discs, not production signature discs. There's a difference.

A semantic distinction within Innova, no doubt I'm culpable regarding Innova's nomenclature. However, this thread is about discs with a woman's name on them, and each example cited does indeed have a woman's name on it.

As someone once remarked in the "Val drops Innova" thread "... semantical weeds..."

 

[DiscJunkie]

This question is much better suited for the "newer" and very recreational disc golfer who likely has no knowledge of the men or women on the disc. It could very well make a difference to them, meaning they may interpret the woman's signature as a woman's disc.

For the diehards on this forum, of course it makes no difference because we know the signature discs (excluding tour series) for the most part, are just production discs with extra writing. Generally, we know there is really no such thing as a "woman's" disc. I guess common sense is enough to deduce that, but consumer behavior is, well, complicated.

If the generic male consumer walking into a major sporting goods store with little knowledge of the product sees a woman's name on it, I think it could matter.

What he said...
Very valid point, well stated.

 

[Micquebec]

I throw pink discs, and sparkly discs...sometimes both at the same time. You think I care about a woman's name?

Pink discs are so much MORE easier to find in the woods!!! I love this color!

So, a woman's name on a disc has 0 impact on a purchase decision for me.

With that said, in november, i found a camo colored disk (Innova Groove) in the underbush. I'm sorry, I love DIY dyed job, but come on...CAMO?!? Understandably, it was a groove....so the guy probably dyed it just so to lose it ASAP.... :clap:

 

[lyleoross]

To my mind, the only question that matters is number two.

The Destroyer sells like gangbusters, does adding Paul's name to it help? Does it increase sales?

While adding a woman champion's name to a disc might not have a negative impact, does it increase sales? How does that compare to what happens when a male of equivalent stature puts their name on a disc?

 

[Three Putt]

I looked up 4 FPO signature discs from Innova:

Valerie Jenkins TL: available weight 173-175
Sarah Cunningham Wraith: available weight 173-175
Hannah Leatherman Tern: available weight 173-175
Des Reading Firebird: available weight 173-175

Most women I know don't throw max weight. Innova even recommends lighter plastic for women



Does this mean Innova's target demographic for their women's tour series discs is men?

Wow, thats a great point.

Considering the vast majority of their disc sales are to men, wouldn't that make sense?

Yeah, but his point is they aren't even offering lower weights as an option.

Aren't all those discs leftovers from past years? The Cunningham disc is a couple years old I think. They probably ran lower weights and sold out, 173-175 is all that is left.

 

[Mulligan]

I know my wife isn't getting very far with anything that isn't 150 class.
Def ought to market more of these in Blizzard and Starlite.

 

[JeremyKShort]

I don't have anything with women's sigs in my bag, but that's more that I don't throw those discs. I don't throw Aviars and Starfires didn't do a lot for me. If there were a woman's signature on a Wizard or River, I'd throw something with a women's signature. Signatures don't really make me buy Discs.
As far as bright pink Discs, I throw those things because you can always find them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SD86]

Aren't all those discs leftovers from past years? The Cunningham disc is a couple years old I think. They probably ran lower weights and sold out, 173-175 is all that is left.

That is perhaps true. But the Valarie 4x commemorative Star SL was only in 175g. The Hannah Leatherman Swirly Star Tern only came in 175g (at the time I bought it; I haven't checked in a while and maybe they have lower weights now). I'd have loved these in the mid-to-upper 160s, but I got them in 175g. It was what it was...

 

[ranger]

To my mind, the only question that matters is number two.

The Destroyer sells like gangbusters, does adding Paul's name to it help? Does it increase sales?

While adding a woman champion's name to a disc might not have a negative impact, does it increase sales? How does that compare to what happens when a male of equivalent stature puts their name on a disc?

I have no evidence, but yes it does. Maybe not a lot but it does sell some.

 

[Hampstead]

To my mind, the only question that matters is number two.

The Destroyer sells like gangbusters, does adding Paul's name to it help? Does it increase sales?

While adding a woman champion's name to a disc might not have a negative impact, does it increase sales? How does that compare to what happens when a male of equivalent stature puts their name on a disc?

As far as I can tell based on a statistically insignificant sample size, adding Paul's name has actually hurt sales. Now, I don't blame the name, but it doesn't help that McBeth Destroyers have a reputation for being glideless meathooks. People I know who love Destroyers are either seeking out old AJ's or trying equivalents from other companies (Outlaw, Defender, Photon, etc).

Speaking of AJ, I wonder if adding his name to Star Teebirds has "moved the needle" in either direction? Can't say I know anyone actively seeking them out.

 

[notapro]

If leopards all become stamped with a female disc golfer's name, I'll still throw them without a second thought.

 

[Three Putt]

A semantic distinction within Innova, no doubt I'm culpable regarding Innova's nomenclature. However, this thread is about discs with a woman's name on them, and each example cited does indeed have a woman's name on it.

As someone once remarked in the "Val drops Innova" thread "... semantical weeds..."

A signature series disc is a regular production run that will be in Dicks, at gas stations and 7-11's, at park department community centers...you know, where regular casual players buy discs.

A tour series disc is run in a small specialty run and has to be ordered online except for a few that will end up in a disc golf specific brick and mortar store. The vast majority of tour series runs will end up with serious disc golfers that understand that the stamp on the disc/gender of the player whose signature is on it doesn't matter. The same is not true for regular production run signature discs for sale at Dicks.

Tour series discs are probably a nice check for the players involved, but nowhere near the potential financial impact of a signature disc that would be run in much higher numbers with a much wider distribution.

It might be a semantic problem to you, but it would be a very realistic wallet problem if you were the player who didn't get a signature disc.

 

[BrotherDave]

It might have been my observation while selling discs that players who were not "in the know" about disc golf (i.e. 85% of my customers) tended to think the JK Valk was a "women's disc" and should be avoided (since 99% of my customers were male) that caused this thread. That's anecdotal evidence for sure, but here is my thinking.

1. Innova really doesn't seem to have a problem giving signature discs. They gave signature deals to guys with one championship, so it seems like they don't have a problem doing it. Wiggins got one for the distance record. It's something they do fairly freely. We have to assume that it is "good for business" i.e. helps sell those discs.

2. Innova gave Juliana Korver signature discs when she came over as a 3X Women's champion. Since then they have NOT given signature discs to Des Reading or Val Jenkins when they also had 3 championships. If a 1X Borg or Avery disc wasn't an issue, why are 3X Women's Championship discs a problem. You have to at least entertain the possibility that sales of the JK discs were disappointing when compared to the sale of Men's signature discs and would be "bad for business." Otherwise, they are just misogynistic pigs. If that was the case, why would they bother to sponsor women at all?

3. Des Reading is the more interesting example since Innova seems to want to reward the Readings and support them for what they have done. The Readings DO have a signature disc, but it is not a 3x Des Reading disc. It's the Yeti, a putter celebrating a putting contest that nobody cares about (seriously, can you name anyone else who has won it?) that Jay is the 4X champion of. If Innova wanted to support the Readings AND they thought a 3X Women's Champion disc would help sales, why in the world would they not have gone that route instead of the Yeti? Again, you have to entertain the possibility that Innova from experience knows that a great disc like the Valk would see it's sales suffer from having a Woman's name on it so they figured out a way to support the Readings with a disc featuring Jay's name. Otherwise the idea that Jay has a signature disc and Des does not is preposterous. Once you allow the idea that the Yeti is a better business decision to get $$$ in the Readings pockets, it doesn't seem so odd.

Again, it's anecdotal. Innova doesn't talk about sales figures and they don't have to. We are not going to know the whys and hows of signature discs. However, Innova supports a women's team and they are a successful business. I have to think that if there was no downside to having a woman's name on a disc, they would have done it for Des and Val.

Wouldn't the logic of giving Jay the Yeti putter instead of Des be along the lines of why they gave Wiggins a sig disc for the distance record? If I'm looking for a distance driver and I see this guy's name on it with distance record I'm thinking "Wow, this disc must bomb." Likewise, if I'm shopping for a putter and see a putting champion's name on it I'm thinking "Wow, this must be a really good, reliable putter." Seems more like basic marketing maneuver rather than slighting Des unintentionally. :\

 

[Three Putt]

Wouldn't the logic of giving Jay the Yeti putter instead of Des be along the lines of why they gave Wiggins a sig disc for the distance record? If I'm looking for a distance driver and I see this guy's name on it with distance record I'm thinking "Wow, this disc must bomb." Likewise, if I'm shopping for a putter and see a putting champion's name on it I'm thinking "Wow, this must be a really good, reliable putter." Seems more like basic marketing maneuver rather than slighting Des unintentionally. :\

That's the great thing about talking about something that we a) don't know the answer to, b) have no way of finding out the answer to and c) will never ever know the answer to. Literally anything could have happened. Des and Jay might have played beer pong with the winner getting the sig disc for all we know. :|

 

[Arisugawa]

From an aesthetic standpoint, I'm actually less inclined to buy a disc if it has a pro's name on it at all, regardless of gender. Which is to say, given the choice between the same mold with different stamps, one with a pro's name and one without, I am more likely to choose the stamp without a name.

A pro's name will not stop me from buying a mold I want. Given the choice between the pro name disc and trying something I'm unfamiliar with, I'm going with the pro name disc.

However, saying all of that, I will buy a pro name disc if it is a pro I want to support. I have a Jennifer Sawyer MVP Inertia, for example, that I bought to help support her 2017 Tour. I suspect, however, that this isn't quite the same situation that the original poster was asking about.

 

[teemkey]

A signature series disc is a regular production run that will be in Dicks, at gas stations and 7-11's, at park department community centers...you know, where regular casual players buy discs.

A tour series disc is run in a small specialty run and has to be ordered online except for a few that will end up in a disc golf specific brick and mortar store. The vast majority of tour series runs will end up with serious disc golfers that understand that the stamp on the disc/gender of the player whose signature is on it doesn't matter. The same is not true for regular production run signature discs for sale at Dicks.

Tour series discs are probably a nice check for the players involved, but nowhere near the potential financial impact of a signature disc that would be run in much higher numbers with a much wider distribution.

It might be a semantic problem to you, but it would be a very realistic wallet problem if you were the player who didn't get a signature disc.

Unfortunately you missed the point of my post, which was directed at one specific poster.

 

[lyleoross]

As far as I can tell based on a statistically insignificant sample size, adding Paul's name has actually hurt sales. Now, I don't blame the name, but it doesn't help that McBeth Destroyers have a reputation for being glideless meathooks. People I know who love Destroyers are either seeking out old AJ's or trying equivalents from other companies (Outlaw, Defender, Photon, etc).

Speaking of AJ, I wonder if adding his name to Star Teebirds has "moved the needle" in either direction? Can't say I know anyone actively seeking them out.

Interesting! I wish we had all the numbers though. Thanks.

BTW, I agree, I've had better results with the AJ Star Destroyers than the McBeth. The numbers are too small to really draw conclusions though. I do know that the grand slam Mcbeth's were hawked to local sellers and at least one marked them up.

I will say that I bought JK valks, but the name was purely neutral. I bought them because that's what was there.

 

[lyleoross]

I have no evidence, but yes it does. Maybe not a lot but it does sell some.

Can you tell us why you feel that way? Not being mean, just parsing data in my head.

 

[lyleoross]

From an aesthetic standpoint, I'm actually less inclined to buy a disc if it has a pro's name on it at all, regardless of gender. Which is to say, given the choice between the same mold with different stamps, one with a pro's name and one without, I am more likely to choose the stamp without a name.

A pro's name will not stop me from buying a mold I want. Given the choice between the pro name disc and trying something I'm unfamiliar with, I'm going with the pro name disc.

However, saying all of that, I will buy a pro name disc if it is a pro I want to support. I have a Jennifer Sawyer MVP Inertia, for example, that I bought to help support her 2017 Tour. I suspect, however, that this isn't quite the same situation that the original poster was asking about.

This sums up how I feel. I like my discs clean. I like the sponsor discs that have very small stamps and buy bottom stamp Scorpius-sss. But I've always thought I was weird in this I like clean discs and clothing. Hate the notion of being an ad.

 

[SD86]

A semantic distinction within Innova, no doubt I'm culpable regarding Innova's nomenclature. However, this thread is about discs with a woman's name on them, and each example cited does indeed have a woman's name on it.

As someone once remarked in the "Val drops Innova" thread "... semantical weeds..."

No, not semantical weeds, and my comment there is being taken out of context.

There is a distinct difference in sig discs and Tour Series discs