2016 Pro Worlds

[lyleoross]

One point, by strict English, if you shanked the throw and landed OB anywhere on the course, you go to the DZ.

 

[lyleoross]

It's last point in bounds after the tee shot, except that it's actually not because of the island green. So when you miss the island, having already crossed the island, your not playing last point in bounds. Even though it says "All subsequent shots play last point in bounds". Which raises the question, which is fair, of where your lie is when you miss the island, because it isn't last point in bounds because that point was on the island you didn't make.


Did I make that confusing enough?

Also, by definition and reading Chuck's post, if you skip off the island, you still go to the DZ. That is what Paul did at GBO.

 

[lyleoross]

The consequences are no worse, it'd be the same penalty (I think). Kind of like the stuff at the US Open ball golf tournament; the player thought he did no wrong, and it took slo-mo zoom camera angles to tell that the ball moved.

If they'd come to Paul and said he did wrong, he'd have said okay. But I don't think getting caught was in his mind. I think he realized his mistake and wanted to do the right thing. I know this is extremely rare in the world today, so it's hardly recognizable. Ergo, I'll give him credit for doing right.

Concur.

 

[DiscLoser1]

Jeremy Rusco

Doug Bjerkaas

 

[Cgkdisc]

Doug Bjerkaas

Some posts on Facebook after Player Meeting indicated Jeremy was TD. But I did work with Doug on the course schedule so it makes sense.

 

[Pbmercil]

That isn't what it says. It says if OB go to DZ. It doesn't define if you pass over something therefore, if you drive and land OB, even if your throw circles the moon, you go to the DZ. OTOH, if you lay up and then go OB you're okay, hence the subsequent.

OB on the tee shot goes to the DZ. Which is irrelevant, because we are not talking about the tee shot.

 

[bogeyfreetilinfinity]

I love how the pdga seemingly threw the bottom card in with the hole by hole scoring.

 

[Pbmercil]

I love how the pdga seemingly threw the bottom card in with the hole by hole scoring.

Lol that is funny. Its really just that someone on that card was willing to live score it. But it does look wierd.

 

[Flick Maniac]

Wierd spelling looks weird

 

[mavsfan0434]

It's just a damn shame we don't have a clearer rulebook. Or an official on the hole where confusion may occur. I mean hell, it's only the biggest tournament in our sports afterall. Sheesh...let's not grow the sport until we pull our heads from asses.

Kudos to Paul for doing the right thing, now I want him to win even more.

 

[mavsfan0434]

Actually, I think I figured it out, and its pretty bizarre. Caddy book for hole 7 says (exact quote emphasis added)



The bolded part is really poorly phrased. Paul's second shot in round one crossed the island and went OB out the back. So he played last place in bounds, which is what the second sentence tells you to do. However, the third sentence tells you something completely different. This is a total cluster. I wish this would have been caught sooner, and I hope it doesn't end up costing paul 2 strokes, as it seems like had an honest interpretation of the caddy book.

If that is what the caddybook says, I'd have a real issue with taking the penalty. The only time a drop zone is mentioned to be used is off the tee...not from a 2nd shot. WTF

 

[spinachd]

The language seems clear to me

 

[JC17393]

It's just a damn shame we don't have a clearer rulebook. Or an official on the hole where confusion may occur. I mean hell, it's only the biggest tournament in our sports afterall. Sheesh...let's not grow the sport until we pull our heads from asses.

Kudos to Paul for doing the right thing, now I want him to win even more.

Because one player/group got it wrong, and we have no indication that anyone else did, it's the rule book's (and apparently tournament staff's) fault there was "confusion"?

Orrrr, perhaps the rule is clear to everyone who read it, and the player(s) that got it wrong simply didn't read it or if they did, forgot that the special condition applied on that hole.

McBeth is only a victim of his own ignorance here. Nothing more. This should not be construed as an indictment of the whole sport.

 

[RKelly]

I have to agree that the wording is poor. Even after having the rule reviewed and explained, there's still confusion/disagreement, by people here, that are specifically looking at the rules. Good for Paul to admit that he had played a hole incorrectly, knowing that it would cost him.

 

[Flick Maniac]

If that is what the caddybook says, I'd have a real issue with taking the penalty. The only time a drop zone is mentioned to be used is off the tee...not from a 2nd shot. WTF

Its not telling him to go to the drop zone. It is only saying last point inbounds AND that to play from the island, one has to come to rest on the island.

I think Paul did not read the caddy book but only assumed something or remembered it wrong. No sane person would stop reading after the "all subsequent throws" part, and any sane person reading to the end would come to the conclusion that for any shots that skip OB off the island, or traverse it in the air before going OB, should not be played from the island (unless said shot was taken from the island).

 

[netposer]

It's just a damn shame we don't have a clearer rulebook. Or an official on the hole where confusion may occur. I mean hell, it's only the biggest tournament in our sports afterall. Sheesh...let's not grow the sport until we pull our heads from asses.

Kudos to Paul for doing the right thing, now I want him to win even more.

I agree, put your best spotter(s) on that hole and make sure they are officials too. That rule contradicts itself and if there was that much confusion on a single hole there's a problem.

So you tee off and land in or out of bounds you do this:
"All subsequent throws proceed to last place in bounds."
Not sure how you can have that sentence in the caddy book just before this sentence:
"Must come to rest on island to proceed to play from island. Once safely on island, regular OB rules apply"

So if you go OB after your tee shot it's impossible to follow both of those rules to make a true statement.

A huge fail on the tourney organizers. They should get someone who knows how to write.

 

[netposer]

The language seems clear to me

sub·se·quent - coming after something in time; following.

So after the tee shot EVERY throw is 'subsequent'.

 

[RistoS]

So you tee off and land in or out of bounds you do this:
"All subsequent throws proceed to last place in bounds."
Not sure how you can have that sentence in the caddy book just before this sentence:
"Must come to rest on island to proceed to play from island. Once safely on island, regular OB rules apply"

So if you go OB after your tee shot it's impossible to follow both of those rules to make a true statement.

You seem to have ignored the first sentence of hole rules entirely, there's a designated drop zone if your tee shot is OB. It's a hole that should not have a DZ though, the rules would be so much clearer.

 

[netposer]

You seem to have ignored the first sentence of hole rules entirely, there's a designated drop zone if your tee shot is OB. It's a hole that should not have a DZ though, the rules would be so much clearer.

I didn't ignore the first sentence. That's clear, go OB proceed to DZ. The second sentence overrides the island sentence. They need an "except" in there to make it true.

 

[lyleoross]

OB on the tee shot goes to the DZ. Which is irrelevant, because we are not talking about the tee shot.

And neither is this. You don't get to read half the rule and run with it. The last sentence states unless you land on the island you don't play from it. What about that isn't clear? or at the least raises a question in the reader's mind? That final point is a clarification on when you get to play from the island. If you pass over it from the tee, go to DZ, if you pass over it after that go to last point IB, that doesn't include the island. At this point I'm willing to concede, an English major should have written the rule. Garrison Keillor?

I've been on enough cards where something isn't clear to the card. We run a provisional. An interpretation had been made at some point and they, those who got it wrong, stuck with it.