2016 Pro Worlds

[ScottyLove]

I like how McCabe put it in the aftershow broadcast... "Anytime you go OB in any big tournament, your first instinct should be to check the book." This didn't happen. Paul wrongly assumed how to play it.

And I also liked the reason it's an island. It's a blind shot, so how could the players know where it really crossed over... or if it ever was above the island... and on and on. You never know if you're going to have a volunteer spotter, so the easiest thing to do was make it an island.

Sounds like many folks didn't play it right. McCabe even said in both rounds, 1/2 his card didn't even carry the caddy book! That's pretty unprofessional of a pro if you ask me.

 

[netposer]

And neither is this. You don't get to read half the rule and run with it. The last sentence states unless you land on the island you don't play from it. What about that isn't clear? or at the least raises a question in the reader's mind? That final point is a clarification on when you get to play from the island. If you pass over it from the tee, go to DZ, if you pass over it after that go to last point IB, that doesn't include the island. At this point I'm willing to concede, an English major should have written the rule. Garrison Keillor?

I've been on enough cards where something isn't clear to the card. We run a provisional. An interpretation had been made at some point and they, those who got it wrong, stuck with it.

So if you go to the DZ based on the island portion then you break this part of the rule:
"All subsequent throws proceed to last place in bounds."
Not sure how you can say "all" and "subsequent" and not break that rule by throwing from DZ.

 

[Pbmercil]

And neither is this. You don't get to read half the rule and run with it. The last sentence states unless you land on the island you don't play from it. What about that isn't clear?

What isn't clear is where you are supposed to go if your last point in bounds is on the green, but you haven't come to rest on the green. because you can't meet both conditions simultaneously. I understand how its supposed to be played, that you should go to the last point in bounds that doesn't include the island. But that is in no way clear from readying the caddy book.

 

[soft focus]

Macbeth went on in the water and played from the waters edge yesterday. Was that legal, or should he have gone to the drop zone?

 

[Consult20]

I like how McCabe put it in the aftershow broadcast... "Anytime you go OB in any big tournament, your first instinct should be to check the book." This didn't happen. Paul wrongly assumed how to play it.

And I also liked the reason it's an island. It's a blind shot, so how could the players know where it really crossed over... or if it ever was above the island... and on and on. You never know if you're going to have a volunteer spotter, so the easiest thing to do was make it an island.

Sounds like many folks didn't play it right. McCabe even said in both rounds, 1/2 his card didn't even carry the caddy book! That's pretty unprofessional of a pro if you ask me.

During the live broadcast Terry asked Sexton about it and he indicated he thought several players had played it wrong (I believe he said 17, as a generalization indicating Paul was far from the only one who played it wrong). Which is why I asked earlier how many others have come forward to let the TD know. I'd also be curious if it was specifically covered in the player's meeting. Which brings up another question -- what percent of open players actually attend the player's meetings? I was surprised to hear an open player tell me he never attends them. I would think you'd not only want to attend them, but would want to pay attention too!

 

[Steve West]

Here's another wrinkle: It looks like the spotter on the island marked the last point in bounds with an orange flag, which is where Paul played from.

Doesn't the spotter's decision overrule the group? Or, can't Paul rely on where the spotter says to play from?

Why is the spotter marking last points in bounds on the island if that's not the way to play it?

 

[netposer]

During the live broadcast Terry asked Sexton about it and he indicated he thought several players had played it wrong (I believe he said 17, as a generalization indicating Paul was far from the only one who played it wrong). Which is why I asked earlier how many others have come forward to let the TD know. I'd also be curious if it was specifically covered in the player's meeting. Which brings up another question -- what percent of open players actually attend the player's meetings? I was surprised to hear an open player tell me he never attends them. I would think you'd not only want to attend them, but would want to pay attention too!

I don't think the issue is with "how" it should have been played but the wording of the rule makes it impossible to play it correctly if you go OB after your tee shot.

 

[soft focus]

Yes...the drop zone is meaningless and should not have been there. Just play from last place in bounds....the drop zone was an "overthinking" addition.

 

[Pbmercil]

Here's another wrinkle: It looks like the spotter on the island marked the last point in bounds with an orange flag, which is where Paul played from.

Doesn't the spotter's decision overrule the group? Or, can't Paul rely on where the spotter says to play from?

Why is the spotter marking last points in bounds on the island if that's not the way to play it?

I had the same thought. There are two spotters on the hole, and neither one told Paul's group anything was up. I try not to be too hard on spotters, they are volunteers after all, but at the same time it would be nice if they knew the rules for the hole they were on and helped the group's play correctly. I understand spotters are failable, and I don't want to be hard on them. But I know if it were me volunteering, I'd know the rules for the hole I was assigned to and say something if a missplay occurred.

 

[ScottyLove]

Here's another wrinkle: It looks like the spotter on the island marked the last point in bounds with an orange flag, which is where Paul played from.

Doesn't the spotter's decision overrule the group? Or, can't Paul rely on where the spotter says to play from?

Why is the spotter marking last points in bounds on the island if that's not the way to play it?

Spotter have ZERO jurisdiction on anything as they are not officials. Just plain ol' spotters. He could be simply marking where to go look for it in the tall grass. The players or nearby official are the only ones who can make any ruling.

 

[SD86]

Macbeth went on in the water and played from the waters edge yesterday. Was that legal, or should he have gone to the drop zone?

They made sure about that one, and the commentators spoke about it. McBeth played that one correctly.

 

[netposer]

I had the same thought. There are two spotters on the hole, and neither one told Paul's group anything was up. I try not to be too hard on spotters, they are volunteers after all, but at the same time it would be nice if they knew the rules for the hole they were on and helped the group's play correctly. I understand spotters are failable, and I don't want to be hard on them. But I know if it were me volunteering, I'd know the rules for the hole I was assigned to and say something if a missplay occurred.

The spotter should have said. "hey, the rule states you have to throw from the DZ". From there the group makes the decision.

 

[ScottyLove]

Here's an interesting tidbit...

Big Jerm played so horrible he's now playing in a group today with his caddy from yesterday! Young phenom and 2015 Under 19 World Champion Austin Turner was on Jerms bag yesterday.

 

[ScottyLove]

The spotter should have said. "hey, the rule states you have to throw from the DZ". From there the group makes the decision.

Nope... spotter may know NOTHING about the rules and generally don't. They are just volunteers who watch plastic fly.

 

[RistoS]

Here's another wrinkle: It looks like the spotter on the island marked the last point in bounds with an orange flag, which is where Paul played from.

Doesn't the spotter's decision overrule the group? Or, can't Paul rely on where the spotter says to play from?

Spotters usually aren't tournament officials so their decisions do not overrule anything. In these situations, players (as certified officials) are responsible for playing the hole correctly, regardless of what the spotters are doing.

Macbeth went on in the water and played from the waters edge yesterday. Was that legal, or should he have gone to the drop zone?

He was legal there. The drop zone is only designated for missing the mandatory.

 

[netposer]

Nope... spotter may know NOTHING about the rules and generally don't. They are just volunteers who watch plastic fly.

I know that but they can still tell Paul he's about to make an illegal throw. Just like fans do a big tourney's. It's up to Paul and the group to make the decision.

 

[notroman]

I honestly think a drop zone or buncr rule would have been better in this situation. This whole "island is out of bounds unless your disc comes to rest on the island" rule is confusing for many people. The reason it even exists now is because you can't have stroke and distance at tournaments anymore since PDGA is enforcing that rule this year. I've never seen islands played this way until this year.. I played at an event earlier this year where the TD really wanted to do stroke and distance on an island hole that was stroke and distance in previous years, but the new PDGA rules prohibit it. He ended up approaching it the same way as hole 7 at Jones East. It was pretty confusing and a lot of people misplayed it.

 

[Steve West]

I was going by:

1.11 Officials
Last updated: Monday, August 10, 2015 - 16:02

D. ... The Tournament Director may empower non-certified officials to act as spotters for a specific spotting purpose. The ruling of such a spotter supersedes the ruling of the group.

 

[ScottyLove]

I know that but they can still tell Paul he's about to make an illegal throw. Just like fans do a big tourney's. It's up to Paul and the group to make the decision.

You're not paying attention. The spotter may just be a boy scout who's never played disc golf and doesn't know the RULES. How can he tell anyone about anything illegal if he doesn't know the rules?

I was a spotter once on Hole 1 and The Memorial after my round. Nobody asked me who I was or if I played... they just came up to me in the crowd and said, " You wanna spot discs on this hole and mark where they go in the water?"

That's how many folks become spotters, so the only words I every expect to hear from a spotter is, "Your disc is over there" or "It crossed the line here." Other than that, they should be silent.

 

[BionicRib]

I was going by:

Excellent point...


*the rule you posted*