2016 Pro Worlds

[august dupree]

I'm pulling for Nikko. There, I said it.

 

[krupicka]

I heard an email was sent out to the players about this hole. Would anyone care to post it if they have it?

 

[Consult20]

I'm pulling for Nikko. There, I said it.

His putting routine has sped up, maybe that's helping him to not overthink so much. I kept waiting for him to wipe his hand 30 times before finally putting, but he was only doing it mostly only once -- big improvement. Pretty cool watching him flex the crap out of that "mystery firebird" meathook.

 

[bwgort]

You're not paying attention. The spotter may just be a boy scout who's never played disc golf and doesn't know the RULES. How can he tell anyone about anything illegal if he doesn't know the rules?

I was a spotter once on Hole 1 and The Memorial after my round. Nobody asked me who I was or if I played... they just came up to me in the crowd and said, " You wanna spot discs on this hole and mark where they go in the water?"

That's how many folks become spotters, so the only words I every expect to hear from a spotter is, "Your disc is over there" or "It crossed the line here." Other than that, they should be silent.

Yes, isn't the point of a spotter to tell the player where his disc crossed out of bounds? Even in your example, the spotter is telling you where you should play from.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Perhaps tall flags to mark where disc is located in OB.

 

[jvphobic]

Today's coverage starts at 12:50! It will be the tightly contested FPO division at Jones East.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3e6SCcilw_w

 

[ScottyLove]

Yes, isn't the point of a spotter to tell the player where his disc crossed out of bounds? Even in your example, the spotter is telling you where you should play from.

No... he's not telling you where to play from. He's telling you where your disc crossed. Then you and your card mates decide based on the rules where to play from.

The problem here is the caddy book provided wasn't consulted. Shame on the player.

 

[bwgort]

In this case, if the spotter has flags, they should be tall ones used to mark where the disc actually lands in the OB area so the player can find it rather than on the edge of the island where the disc passed over it.

If the spotter was marking it the way he did with McBeth, I imagine a lot of people took the shot from where there flag was. Any idea how many people self reported a violation of this rule?

What I am really shocked by is that the 4x champ was playing with a crowd and on video and no one noticed for 24 hours.

 

[Nova P]

I heard an email was sent out to the players about this hole. Would anyone care to post it if they have it?

This would be irregular, as the TD has been primarily communicating with the players by pushing notifications on the PDGA Pro Worlds phone app. For what it's worth, I have received no such email, but my pool does not play Jones East. (Which is a bummer, I might add.)

 

[bwgort]

No... he's not telling you where to play from. He's telling you where your disc crossed. Then you and your card mates decide based on the rules where to play from.

The problem here is the caddy book provided wasn't consulted. Shame on the player.

Yes, he's telling you where you were last in bounds. The book says to play from where you were LAST in bounds then contradicts itself by saying you can't play from where you were last in bounds. Technically since there's no place McBeth was last in bounds that is playable, he should probably have to rethrow. But mandatory rethrow is not allowed without a waiver by the PDGA. The caddybook should prescribe where you play from and this caddybook did not clearly do that.

Shame on the player? This is shame on the tournament director for a poor wording of the rules and the PDGA for not reviewing the rules prior to the tournament. The fact that no one noticed for 24 hours proves how confusing the rule book was. The PDGA created this problem by banning stroke and distance after Ledgestone. I've been to at least 5 tournaments this year that did not follow the new stroke and distance rule from the PDGA and I've seen numerous disagreements among tournament directors regarding the rule.

 

[Flick Maniac]

I cannot imagine any player worth their salt, in Worlds the least, skipping off the island, looking at the rule, thinking "hmm seems to me a little contradictory if i read this like the devil reads the Bible, so i am just going to select only one way to play it and not throw a provisional"

1. Rule Book. ALWAYS.
2. Caddie book. ALWAYS.
3. If in doubt, provisional.
4 ...
5. Profit.

 

[Streets]

I'm pulling for Nikko. There, I said it.

I'm with you! :hfive:

 

[Dana]

I was impressed with Nikko's play yesterday. Unfortunate break on 17 for him. Otherwise, his putting was really solid, which has been a point of frustration for him over the last few years.

 

[Streets]

I was impressed with Nikko's play yesterday. Unfortunate break on 17 for him. Otherwise, his putting was really solid, which has been a point of frustration for him over the last few years.

He seemed to not get in his head as much.

 

[AndyJB]

With the penalties, Nikko is now in a good spot even if it's only one stroke ahead of Paul. After tpday I would think the top will get a littleess cluttered....lots of great pros up there that can make a serious charge. Im hoping Eagle just smashes the course today and moves up. Going to be an interesting day, to say the least!

 

[ToddL]

I have no problem with that rule. I think it was written well, and it's extremely hard to misinterpret if you actually read the entire rule. Perhaps I would have put an "ISLAND GREEN" in all caps at the beginning of the rule to really get people's attention.

I'm a huge rules stickler for all the tournaments I help run. Sometimes we might have 10-15 revisions of the rules sheet before we finally settle on the proper wording (now that we've established a good rule sheet, it can mostly be re-used for future tournaments). We put a lot of effort into these rules to make it easier on the players and on us.
And without fail, people will have questions about the rules because they didn't read. Even if it's "what time does the 3rd round start tomorrow?" and I answer "it's on your rules sheet", half the time they respond with "well I don't have my rules sheet." It's one piece of paper that contains absolutely everything you need to know - schedules, rules, layouts - and way too many people just throw them away.
So then we started trying to cover some rules in the players' meeting. A handful of people never show up to the meeting. A lot of people stand in the back and have conversations during the meeting (mostly pros). A lot of people complain that the players' meeting is too long and that we shouldn't go over any rules in the meeting.

I have zero sympathy for people who don't read the rules. If the rule is unclear, play a provisional. But never assume you know how it should be played.

 

[mavsfan0434]

Nope... spotter may know NOTHING about the rules and generally don't. They are just volunteers who watch plastic fly.

Then it is a complete waste even having them there. Time to be smarter and educate them on the hole they are working.

 

[Dana]

The rule was pretty clear if you looked at the caddy book. If you played it and went OB and had the spotter mark where it was last in bounds, it wasn't so clear. End of the day, it is on the player to know course rules!

Kind of reminds me of Portland Worlds at Trojan. Hole 16 was misplayed quite a bit, due to the wording. No one ended up getting stroked, to my knowledge. To me, the rule was clear and I can remember some players complained and argued to get the call to go their way. I guarantee that it was played differently by the field.

 

[JC17393]

Yes, he's telling you where you were last in bounds. The book says to play from where you were LAST in bounds then contradicts itself by saying you can't play from where you were last in bounds. Technically since there's no place McBeth was last in bounds that is playable, he should probably have to rethrow. But mandatory rethrow is not allowed without a waiver by the PDGA. The caddybook should prescribe where you play from and this caddybook did not clearly do that.

Shame on the player? This is shame on the tournament director for a poor wording of the rules and the PDGA for not reviewing the rules prior to the tournament. The fact that no one noticed for 24 hours proves how confusing the rule book was. The PDGA created this problem by banning stroke and distance after Ledgestone. I've been to at least 5 tournaments this year that did not follow the new stroke and distance rule from the PDGA and I've seen numerous disagreements among tournament directors regarding the rule.

The bolded is untrue.

If in the attached graphic, the blue X is where Paul threw from and the blue line is the path his disc took, then the black X is where he should have played his next shot from by the rules dictated in the caddy book.

Yes, shame on the player. These caddy books were made available to ALL players. There was a players meeting in which I guarantee they had a period of Q&A to clarify anything that needed clarifying. If the wording in the book was confusing and contradictory, then someone should have brought it up at the player's meeting for clarification. That it wasn't (I assume, maybe it was) indicates to me that those who read it understood it and those that didn't read it couldn't be confused by it.

 

[bwgort]

The bolded is untrue.

If in the attached graphic, the blue X is where Paul threw from and the blue line is the path his disc took, then the black X is where he should have played his next shot from by the rules dictated in the caddy book.

Yes, shame on the player. These caddy books were made available to ALL players. There was a players meeting in which I guarantee they had a period of Q&A to clarify anything that needed clarifying. If the wording in the book was confusing and contradictory, then someone should have brought it up at the player's meeting for clarification. That it wasn't (I assume, maybe it was) indicates to me that those who read it understood it and those that didn't read it couldn't be confused by it.

Even your image shows the green as in bounds. I agree with Dana that this is similar to the situation at Trojan where tons of groups played a hole wrong and then subsequently were not penalized.