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2017 Aussie Open DGWT Event Discussion

I don't mind the concept of the red circle and the attempt to generate some meaningful statistics from it. But I agree that "bullseye" is not a good term. I like the term "Inner Circle Hit" myself...


Jamie, I'm talkin' at you. :)

Yes, I understand the concept, and I actually think it's a very important stat. I'll come back to that. But why lessen its importance by labeling it incorrectly, or with a term that means something different?

To be clear, the topic came up last year with criticisms of the language. It isn't a hard fix. It took Streets all of two minutes to tie the terminology into the common language of the sport. "He parked it!" While I've been thinking of "the parking lot," the fact is that SD has a better term for it as the ICH.

One of the reasons I like Steve Dodge is that when he makes a mistake, he tends to fix it. On top of that, he tends to admit he's made a mistake. Please listen to the Smash from three weeks ago. That takes Chutzpah, guts, you name it. I don't always agree with Steve, but I almost always admire and respect him.

Jussie tends to go the opposite way. When he makes mistakes, he doesn't fix them, he can't admit it, and he tends to find excuses or blame others. Now, his mistakes haven't been huge, but they are there. This one is minor but easily fixed. Why not?


The ICH - cause that's what I'm calling it. A player that gets an ICH from 150 feet and out has done something. IMO, he should have gained a statistically measurable advantage over a player that has hit outside of twenty feet in such a situation. My impression is that he doesn't, and I'm pretty sure you can now determine that from what DGWT has done. Good on them.

We often debate baskets and how they catch. Being arbitrary, I would argue that a player who hits inside 10 feet on ten holes should have a twenty percent advantage over a player who hits outside of 20 feet on the same ten holes. That is, player A should get 10 out of 10 and player B should get 8 out of 10, on average over lots and lots of holes. If I can get you to accept that as a starting point, now you can think about basket design. You want to make a basket that rewards this situtation. Of course how you get there is a lot tougher. But, you can imagine a putting machine with certain parameters, speed, height of putt etc. and you design baskets that give you the result you've prerequested. Nope, won't be perfect, but you can get close.

Should you do this? Maybe. But At least you can ask the questions and see what is going on with Jussie's measurement. So, I'm not criticising the concept, just the rather silly name.

And as always, I'm having fun. I hate Bullseye, no really, but I'm certainly not taking myself seriously on that name. On the other hand, I do think the measurement is important and will allow us to think about rewarding a player who has a good, wait for it, ICH metrix.
 
Very true
to me he sounds like a radio broadcaster trying to do video for the first time and forgets people can see what he is talking about.

Sent from my SM-T237P using Tapatalk

In Avery's defense, that's one of the hardest parts of recording commentary for these edited rounds. You get in the flow, but then you almost feel awkward when there is dead air. It's not as easy as it seems.
 
In Avery's defense, that's one of the hardest parts of recording commentary for these edited rounds. You get in the flow, but then you almost feel awkward when there is dead air. It's not as easy as it seems.

I think this is correct. I've done a few. But it can be done.
 
Oh yeah those 4 are soft!

Come and play them next time...

I never said the holes were soft, just the pars. And that's only relative to the rest of the course - which has generally not as soft pars as most tournaments. So, yeah, maybe not soft; just the most likely candidates for a lower par.

Buuuuut, when 82% of the 1000-rated players are getting a birdie (Hole 13), then I think par is inflated (thus too soft) for Open.
 
Bullseye is a perfect name. i am confused as to why this has turned into a debate.

Also, Avery is doing an excellent job. Not sure why people are complaining.
 
Jamie, I'm talkin' at you. :)

Yes, I understand the concept, and I actually think it's a very important stat. I'll come back to that. But why lessen its importance by labeling it incorrectly, or with a term that means something different?

To be clear, the topic came up last year with criticisms of the language. It isn't a hard fix. It took Streets all of two minutes to tie the terminology into the common language of the sport. "He parked it!" While I've been thinking of "the parking lot," the fact is that SD has a better term for it as the ICH.

One of the reasons I like Steve Dodge is that when he makes a mistake, he tends to fix it. On top of that, he tends to admit he's made a mistake. Please listen to the Smash from three weeks ago. That takes Chutzpah, guts, you name it. I don't always agree with Steve, but I almost always admire and respect him.

Jussie tends to go the opposite way. When he makes mistakes, he doesn't fix them, he can't admit it, and he tends to find excuses or blame others. Now, his mistakes haven't been huge, but they are there. This one is minor but easily fixed. Why not?


The ICH - cause that's what I'm calling it. A player that gets an ICH from 150 feet and out has done something. IMO, he should have gained a statistically measurable advantage over a player that has hit outside of twenty feet in such a situation. My impression is that he doesn't, and I'm pretty sure you can now determine that from what DGWT has done. Good on them.

We often debate baskets and how they catch. Being arbitrary, I would argue that a player who hits inside 10 feet on ten holes should have a twenty percent advantage over a player who hits outside of 20 feet on the same ten holes. That is, player A should get 10 out of 10 and player B should get 8 out of 10, on average over lots and lots of holes. If I can get you to accept that as a starting point, now you can think about basket design. You want to make a basket that rewards this situtation. Of course how you get there is a lot tougher. But, you can imagine a putting machine with certain parameters, speed, height of putt etc. and you design baskets that give you the result you've prerequested. Nope, won't be perfect, but you can get close.

Should you do this? Maybe. But At least you can ask the questions and see what is going on with Jussie's measurement. So, I'm not criticising the concept, just the rather silly name.

And as always, I'm having fun. I hate Bullseye, no really, but I'm certainly not taking myself seriously on that name. On the other hand, I do think the measurement is important and will allow us to think about rewarding a player who has a good, wait for it, ICH metrix.

I have to be honest with you, not trolling, I'm more confused about your point than I was previously. I don't really see what Steve Dodge and basket design debates have to do with you not liking the "bullseye" nomenclature, especially juxtaposed with (what I'm reading as) your attaboy towards both tours for measuring the stat in the first place.

The DGPT "parked" stat is equally as "incorrect" as "bullseye" by your logic - they're both common vernacular terms that are not, by strict definition, disc golf terms. The stats measured also similar distances. DGPT is <=2m, DGWT is <=3m.

TBH, I think you're allowing your opinion of Jussi himself to affect how you feel about this. That said, it's not my place to tell you how you should be forming your opinions or thoughts, so I guess it's just an agree-to-disagree scenario. I don't personally see a problem with either the Bullseye or Parked stat names.

That C2 stat on the PT though? That's a pretty worthless stat if you ask me.
 
In Avery's defense, that's one of the hardest parts of recording commentary for these edited rounds. You get in the flow, but then you almost feel awkward when there is dead air. It's not as easy as it seems.

Agreed. And with time, experience, and maybe some coaching up, Avery will be just fine as a broadcaster/commentator.
 
I have to be honest with you, not trolling, I'm more confused about your point than I was previously. I don't really see what Steve Dodge and basket design debates have to do with you not liking the "bullseye" nomenclature, especially juxtaposed with (what I'm reading as) your attaboy towards both tours for measuring the stat in the first place.

The DGPT "parked" stat is equally as "incorrect" as "bullseye" by your logic - they're both common vernacular terms that are not, by strict definition, disc golf terms. The stats measured also similar distances. DGPT is <=2m, DGWT is <=3m.

TBH, I think you're allowing your opinion of Jussi himself to affect how you feel about this. That said, it's not my place to tell you how you should be forming your opinions or thoughts, so I guess it's just an agree-to-disagree scenario. I don't personally see a problem with either the Bullseye or Parked stat names.

That C2 stat on the PT though? That's a pretty worthless stat if you ask me.

I admire your devotion.

Bullseye is wrongly used. It's English. That is, why use a term incorrectly when you don't have to unless you're saying, hey look, I'm awesome, English is my domain, come on guys, I know better! Frankly, it sounds silly if you take it in context. "Oh look he hit a bullseye." Any marksman, darts player (that would be me) or archer will expect to see the disc in the basket. Simple enough.

The fact that others are giving simple, accurate and more descriptive terms for the outcome speaks to me. Sorry.
 
Parked. I've never heard parked used in any other way than how it's used in disc golf. When something is done so closely to complete, that finishing out is literally an afterthought. But perhaps you're right. Maybe it means something else. That said, I've heard hundreds of disc golfers use the term to mean a throw that falls in directly or very close to the basket. So, even if they are all using it completely incorrectly, I will go with the notion that it has entered the normal game play language of our sport. I only know of three guys who use the term bullseye in our sport. You, Avery and Jussie. It may catch on though. Things do. I remember everyone saying awesome, and we all remember groovy. I know when I see an disc that slides in close to the basket, I still think, groovy!
 
Looks like Paul and Ricky are out to a hot start.
 
Parked, to me, means the disc is right next to the basket such that it can be dropped in-no throwing necessary. Ian Anderson seems to have expanded the term to describe any throw that lands reasonably close to the basket, especially when done by one of his favorite players. Landing to just inside the bullseye circle indicates a good throw, but I've never thought of it as "parked". I see nothing wrong with the bullseye terminology for keeping statistics. Maybe if I were a devoted archer or darts player I would feel differently, but I'm not, so... Whatever it ends up being called, I like seeing the circle-wish it were present on more courses.
 
Paige shoots a 1020-rated moving day round. 2nd highest of her career.


McBeth is on the outside looking in to start 2017. Wow.
 

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