2019 United States Disc Golf Championship Oct 2-5

[Steve West]

Hole 3 is intended to reflect our golf heritage and the growing partnership between disc golf and golf. We chose a double mandatory to showcase how disc golf accuracy could be brought to the wide open golf spaces. The double mandatory also reduces the chances of divoting from throws compared to a single or no mandatory. I believe almost every good thing in disc golf has its origins in golf. We are golfs child, and we should honor our parent. Disc golf and golf are going to be more and more like two generations living in the family house. While we need to honor, and sometimes care for, our parents, we need to respect ourselves too. I do not want to portray disc golfers as a second-class citizen on the golf course tiptoeing off the very surface the golfers hit to and play on. We will continue to talk with golfers and course superintendents to make sure we do our part to honor and protect both versions of golf.

That's an interesting and rational take. I fully agree we should not be second-class citizens.

To me, being accepted as equals depends on understanding the special considerations of golf courses. Things like driving carts gently and only in certain areas. It does not depend on demanding to use the same parts of the course. If that is equal, we would need to concede when the golfers want to start playing in the woods between the fairways.

Also, not throwing projectiles that are a lot sharper than a golf ball and weigh four times as much onto a surface that is very expensive to keep in ball-putt worthy condition. We do not carry around disc-mark repair tools; we should not be landing on the green. Nor should we be walking across or jump-putting or running up and following through with our clunky-treaded shoes and boots on a surface that is only meant for standing still or walking gently in golf shoes.

Anyway, the green is the least interesting part of the course for us. Who needs it?

But, it is far more important to listen to the golfers and superintendents than to listen to me.

(As for the double mando, I think the problem is that it was not brought to the wide-open spaces, but was placed just beyond them.)

 

[cheesethin]

...Championship disc golf, which is also about the spectator, may need *some bad shots to count two to increase the emotional engagement for both player and spectator...

Highly punishing holes like 17 might well make the emotions higher, at the particular moment of playing them, for both the player and the spectator.

But when the players position in the overall standings, built up over the whole tournament, through many small incremental actions, can get demolished in a single hole...

I find that I get emotionally disengaged and disinvested from following the players journey. The more punishment moves towards being capricious, the less bothered I am about following the narrative of any of the players journey to victory or defeat.

It is analogous to films or books that suddenly dump a major character, or drop a major plot line, for no discernable reason. It makes me think, well why did I bother investing emotionally, if everything I've invested in can change in a moment, seemingly without a valid reason. Sudden jumps in narrative can break the viewers engagement.

So while holes like 17 maybe exciting in the moment, I find they make me overall less engaged and devalue the experience of watching the tournament as a whole.

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[cheesethin]

Hole 17

Is it enough to be worth the cost of giving this one little hole so much influence over final standings? Doesn't it reduce interest in other holes?

Yes, for me it does reduce interest in other holes.

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[1978]

Highly punishing holes like 17 might well make the emotions higher, at the particular moment of playing them, for both the player and the spectator.

But when the players position in the overall standings, built up over the whole tournament, through many small incremental actions, can get demolished in a single hole...

I find that I get emotionally disengaged and disinvested from following the players journey. The more punishment moves towards being capricious, the less bothered I am about following the narrative of any of the players journey to victory or defeat.

It is analogous to films or books that suddenly dump a major character, or drop a major plot line, for no discernable reason. It makes me think, well why did I bother investing emotionally, if everything I've invested in can change in a moment, seemingly without a valid reason. Sudden jumps in narrative can break the viewers engagement.

So while holes like 17 maybe exciting in the moment, I find they make me overall less engaged and devalue the experience of watching the tournament as a whole.

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Understand your point, I felt the same way this year...but at what other event can you see a complete field change when a leader has a 4 stroke lead going into the 17th---70th hole of a tournament. So while the hole ultimately reduces the drama leading up to it because we are all watching to see what happens there, that is a fault of a over confident disc golfer. The hole is fine. The way the players play it is the problem. Players stubbornness on hole 17 has made it the biggest part of the event, not the hole itself. It is a relatively easy sidearm from the tee and any shot from the layup.

 

[Steve West]

I guess we need to know how much this hole is dominating the results. By looking at how each player's ranking would have changed if a hole had not been played, we can calculate how much impact each hole had.

#17 has about 80% more impact than the average of the other holes. Not overwhelming, but certainly disproportionate.

Other stats indicate that the changes in ranking by #17 are less random than other holes, and its contribution to total scoring spread is also largest. Which is good. However, when a hole gives out a lot of different large numbers, both of these are easier to achieve. #17 is a little below average in how well it spreads total scores for the number of ranking changes it causes.

If I were to mess with #17, I would leave it as is, except for making the OB areas Relief Areas. That would make its impact more proportionate to the other holes.

 

[DiscJunkie]

If I were to mess with #17, I would leave it as is, except for making the OB areas Relief Areas. That would make its impact more proportionate to the other holes.

Relief Areas?
I'm not sure what you mean.

 

[biscoe]

Relief Areas?
I'm not sure what you mean.

played as OB but with no penalty

 

[DavidSauls]

I guess we need to know how much this hole is dominating the results. By looking at how each player's ranking would have changed if a hole had not been played, we can calculate how much impact each hole had.

#17 has about 80% more impact than the average of the other holes. Not overwhelming, but certainly disproportionate.

And less than 40% more effect than four other holes.

That's less than I would have expected. To my taste, there's nothing wrong with having some critical holes, or holes that have more influence on the results than others. As long as the difference isn't extreme ("extreme" being in the eye of the beholder).

 

[Cgkdisc]

played as OB but with no penalty

Essentially, the buncr rule where you count the missed throw as a "penalty" and throw again from previous lie. Your cumulative score on the hole is only one higher rather than 2 for each throw that doesn't make the green.

 

[Steve West]

Yes, it is no-penalty OB. So the TD can designate drop zones, greater relief, mark near the disc, everything they can do with OB, just without the penalty throw.

Here is the actual rule.

806.04 Relief Area
Last updated: Friday, December 1, 2017 - 10:34

A relief area is an area designated by the Director from which a disc may not be played, or any in-bounds area that players are prohibited by law from entering. A relief area is played as an out-of-bounds area with the exception that no penalty throw is assessed to a player whose disc comes to rest in a relief area.

 

[Harold Duvall]

So here's what we have so far to consider for 2020:

1) Consider Relief area rule instead of throw-and-distance from drop zones on 9, 12, 17.

2) Consider how others might view or use targets on golf greens and parking lot islands.

3) Make OB easier to see for spectators, players and on-line audience. May be rope, thick painted line

4) Anything else?


Here are three areas that I would like feedback:

1) What are examples of good material to show on the live broadcast when there is a break in the action or just to add variety to the action?

2) What is a reasonable price for pay-per-view?

2A) Does a commercial free presentation change the reasonable price for pay=per-view?

2C) Are there any examples of disc golf commercials that have engaged you in a positive way or at least have not irritated you?

3) How would watching in person or on-line change if the final day moved from Saturday to Sunday.

4) Is it unreasonable to prohibit some or all cell-phone use if the local cell tower(s) continue to be a technical bottle neck for high-quality filming to the live audience on-line?

Thanks,

Harold

 

[biscoe]

1) What are examples of good material to show on the live broadcast when there is a break in the action or just to add variety to the action?

Easy answer is more action. Also footage of past events.

2) What is a reasonable price for pay-per-view?

I thought this year was reasonable.

2A) Does a commercial free presentation change the reasonable price for pay=per-view?

philosophically yes but practically no unless the volume of commercials is huge.

2C) Are there any examples of disc golf commercials that have engaged you in a positive way or at least have not irritated you?

No to the first half of this but I also don't find any of them very annoying until they become overly repetitive.

3) How would watching in person or on-line change if the final day moved from Saturday to Sunday.

It would not for me.

4) Is it unreasonable to prohibit some or all cell-phone use if the local cell tower(s) continue to be a technical bottle neck for high-quality filming to the live audience on-line?

Yes in my opinion. At that point you would be differentiating between a disc golf fan using a cell phone and a passerby doing the same thing.

 

[davetherocketguy]

Welp...you asked

Here are three areas that I would like feedback:

1) What are examples of good material to show on the live broadcast when there is a break in the action or just to add variety to the action?

Stories on the players themselves. What its like to be on tour. Most of us have no idea.

2) What is a reasonable price for pay-per-view?

$0. Live has no value to me. I have no time for that.

2A) Does a commercial free presentation change the reasonable price for pay=per-view?

See answer #2.

2C) Are there any examples of disc golf commercials that have engaged you in a positive way or at least have not irritated you?

Not one commercial has ever irritated me with the exception of maybe that nonsense Discraft had of Nate Doss and Valerie Jenkins were throwing inside of some athletic complex. And even that wasn't really that bad. OTOH not one has ever engaged me in any way. I see so many ads elsewhere I've learned to tune them out.

3) How would watching in person or on-line change if the final day moved from Saturday to Sunday.

Not one bit. See answer #2.

4) Is it unreasonable to prohibit some or all cell-phone use if the local cell tower(s) continue to be a technical bottle neck for high-quality filming to the live audience on-line?

Yep. I think that's a terrible idea especially if an emergency occurs. Now if you want ask people to limit cell phone use thats one thing but to prohibit it altogether is just asking for trouble.

I've asked this before and haven't got an answer - or maybe I missed it...What is exactly is meant by "proceeds" in the claim that the proceeds from the $10 is going to EDGE? This was the carrot used by some to say, "Hey you should buy this cause it benefits EDGE." Maybe its just me but when I run a fundraiser (like I did this past weekend) I clearly state what percentage is going where.

 

[perklc]

1) What are examples of good material to show on the live broadcast when there is a break in the action or just to add variety to the action?

Limited commercials are fine. Stories from USDGC's past, player stories, have a camera that roams the course earlier in the day recording some nice shots or maybe even able to catch someone having a hot round/run of holes.

Also, I liked the idea of 2018's live show. I'd love to see it combined with the 2019 ppv. Maybe an hour-90 min pre-round show with hosts that aren't doing the commentary for the play.


2) What is a reasonable price for pay-per-view?

I paid the full $10 despite being a PDGA member. I agree with Dave that I wish I knew how much was going toward EDGE. Also, maybe add an option when signing up for the ppv to be able to donate additional money to EDGE? If the option was right there when already buying the ppv, I likely would have added on an additional $5 where that entire $5 went to EDGE.

2A) Does a commercial free presentation change the reasonable price for pay=per-view?

Not really unless you were to go overboard on the commercials (think SpinTV a few years ago when they had a brief commercial after every single hole). Maybe after holes 4, 9, and 14?

2C) Are there any examples of disc golf commercials that have engaged you in a positive way or at least have not irritated you?

The two Discmania commercials where Simon and Eagle talk about their biggest shots are two of the best commercials I've seen in disc golf. Innova, with their deep line up, could have a ton of commercials of that type. Nate or Conrad talking about USDGC, Climo and Barry talking about any of their success (including their epic USDGC playoff).

3) How would watching in person or on-line change if the final day moved from Saturday to Sunday.

I purchased it this year, but I hesitated because I could only guarantee that I would be able to watch the final round live as I was at work for rounds 2 and 3.

4) Is it unreasonable to prohibit some or all cell-phone use if the local cell tower(s) continue to be a technical bottle neck for high-quality filming to the live audience on-line?

I think it is unreasonable, yes.

....

 

[Flick Maniac]

This years price was ok, though 4 rounds please. No commercials is good, but if there is no good filler (i.e. more action, whether from other cards, other days, other years), then a couple of high end commercials are just fine.

Re: cell phones, do what you gotta do. This year it seemed to clear up considerably when an announcement was made that FB live is killing official live.

 

[krupicka]

4) Is it unreasonable to prohibit some or all cell-phone use if the local cell tower(s) continue to be a technical bottle neck for high-quality filming to the live audience on-line?

Consider the following encouraged uses during the event
Players/caddies uploading scores/stats to UDisc
Spectators following multiple cards on UDisc

Spectators streaming the live coverage at the course would probably be the biggest drain.
Does Winthrop have a Wifi network that covers that part of campus that you could tap into (either for pushing up the stream or to have spectators connect to rather than cell service?)

 

[TheOtherBill]

1) Consider Relief area rule instead of throw-and-distance from drop zones on 9, 12, 17.
- the big scores are kind of cringe-inducing but they certainly keep you watching. I was yelling at JohnE to lay up like it was a Cowboys game
- either way, make it CLEAR. Way too much caddy book consulting

2) Consider how others might view or use targets on golf greens and parking lot islands.
- 888 is likely the most famous hole in disc golf. Courses will still be poorly designed and unsafe no matter what you do about parking lots/etc. Changing those holes might change one park dept's design a year, if that. The much bigger concern I see is baskets near playgrounds, not parking lots.
- golf greens are fine, bolfers will be OK

3) Make OB easier to see for spectators, players and on-line audience. May be rope, thick painted line
- this was really difficult to watch, especially since Jamie was often unsure too. The rope was easier to see but I'm sure it's a huge hassle.

4) Anything else?
- I liked the new wooded hole, very similar to that one along the OB sidewalk at Ledgestone. Might be better with just a single Mando a little farther down the fairway.

Here are three areas that I would like feedback:

1) What are examples of good material to show on the live broadcast when there is a break in the action or just to add variety to the action?
- Show a previous year's shots on the same hole you are about to broadcast as a preview, maybe with some audio pre-taped discussing the traditional or unconventional lines to play. The fly overs are fine but don't really give you a sense of how it's played. "Player Y played rough to rough here in 20xx but saved a birdie with a outside circle 2 putt off a tree. The traditional play is like player Z here in 20xx"

2) What is a reasonable price for pay-per-view?
- pricing was just fine

2A) Does a commercial free presentation change the reasonable price for pay=per-view?
- nope, I'd rather have the commercials and save a few bucks, but I also grew up watching only 3 channels on a Magnavox.

2C) Are there any examples of disc golf commercials that have engaged you in a positive way or at least have not irritated you?
- the Black Ink discs one with Conrad, Simon and Catrina. Maybe ask Tyler Brickley for ideas or to film some on his own.

3) How would watching in person or on-line change if the final day moved from Saturday to Sunday.
- it would likely decrease viewers due to the NFL games, I know I'd likely miss it. Also, when I lived in SC we'd have a carload or two of guys come play on Sunday. It was something we looked forward to for months in advance and gave us smack-talk material for a whole year.
- would also likely cut down on the festivities afterward as players would need to get on the road sooner.

4) Is it unreasonable to prohibit some or all cell-phone use if the local cell tower(s) continue to be a technical bottle neck for high-quality filming to the live audience on-line?
- maybe ask nicely and put a few signs around the course instead of 'prohibiting'. Disc golfers are normally considerate people. They are there supporting the tour and the players, and would likely see the logic/benefit of helping support it online as well.

 

[rhatton1]

Here are three areas that I would like feedback:

1) What are examples of good material to show on the live broadcast when there is a break in the action or just to add variety to the action?

I'd love to see a feed from another hole - eg checking in on players and scoring coming through 18.

Great shots from previous years. Interviews of the old winners etc.

2) What is a reasonable price for pay-per-view?

This year seemed in the ballpark

2A) Does a commercial free presentation change the reasonable price for pay=per-view?

depends how heavily the adverts are played, if it's every hole yes, if there are some good high quality ones in amongst the other material you are looking to add it would be fine, nothing wrong with an advert in the downtime.

2C) Are there any examples of disc golf commercials that have engaged you in a positive way or at least have not irritated you?

Yes. Struggling to think of them off the top of my head but I've definitely enjoyed some, they tend to have good production quality, feel professional and not be the sort of cheesy things you get on late night cable channels.

3) How would watching in person or on-line change if the final day moved from Saturday to Sunday.

I'm hours ahead so live is good for me already timewise I'm probably preferable on a saturday to have a late night and a lie in Sunday.

4) Is it unreasonable to prohibit some or all cell-phone use if the local cell tower(s) continue to be a technical bottle neck for high-quality filming to the live audience on-line?

I would have thought so. Asking would go down well, telling not so much. How could you even enforce that without a lot of disruption on the edges of the green/fairway?

Thanks,

Harold[/QUOTE]

 

[Flick Maniac]

The one where dude griplocks it way right off a hill and it explodes.... K-ringe!!

Funny for maybe 0,5 time.

 

[Harold Duvall]

Here is a recap article that includes the charitable contribution information from the live broadcast:

https://usdgc.com/posts/usdgc-viewers-charitable-donations-recap/