2022 Las Vegas Challenge Feb 24-27

[brutalbrutus]

Anybody ever have a shot knocked down by a goose on any pro coverage?

The course I play the most is overran by them. The tournament there is even called the Muscovy Open. And it isn't uncommon at all to fire off a drive and have a flock fly across a fairway and knock down your shot.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Corrupting the thing that is supposed to tell us which layout they played is not the proper way to get that done.

Small divisions that play the same layout at the same time as another division shouldn't be forced to have their ratings calculated on fewer players merely because they got their own pars.

If there should be a way to force divisions to be separated, it should be its own field.

Automatically combining all scoring data on the same layout throughout the day "corrupts" the data including other data like individual hole scores, putting percentages, greens in reg, driving distances, etc. Layouts using the exact same tees and basket positions are physically different in each time block in a day. Always. Whether those physical differences produce statistically different calculated outcomes can only be teased out by first gathering like data within each time block and then seeing if it's statistically close enough to combine or remain separate.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

How can Stokely get a 7 on hole 1 without a OB or missed C1 putt---how is that even possible??

Might have been late and missed the hole - par +4 IIRC

He makes some great points here about how you respond to it and his not to let your misfortune (or your own boneheadedness) infect the card.

Simply put, a true professional doesn't let their game, negatively impact other peoples' game.

 

[foxdawg10]

Players who shot the same score got the same rating. Only the over/under par was 4 strokes different because the course pars on the same layout were set four strokes apart making it look like they should have different ratings.

Comparing MPO par to FPO par is apples to oranges. Hole 5 is a par 5 for the ladies and a par 4 for men, Same distance but they adjust for distance.

imo, Par 5 is too high for the top level FPO players on a 660 foot hole. Top 3 were scoring an eagle, and a good percentage of the rest of the field were scoring a birdie. Although the bottom of the field were still scoring well over par. It seems that with such a large FPO field, there is much wider scoring separation on this particular hole.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Comparing MPO par to FPO par is apples to oranges. Hole 5 is a par 5 for the ladies and a par 4 for men, Same distance but they adjust for distance.

imo, Par 5 is too high for the top level FPO players on a 660 foot hole. Top 3 were scoring an eagle, and a good percentage of the rest of the field were scoring a birdie. Although the bottom of the field were still scoring well over par. It seems that with such a large FPO field, there is much wider scoring separation on this particular hole.

My part of this discussion wasn't about whether par was set correctly for FPO and MPO, just reconfirming for those who weren't sure that ratings are calculated based on actual scores regardless of how par is set.

 

[Superbford]

So today they are playing the "Factory Store" course.... how does it compare in difficulty to the other two courses?

 

[Three Putt]

Gotta go to the Southwest some time I suppose.

The timing is funny, though. The event started as the warm-up event to The Memorial. Now The Memorial is just some A Tier you can hit on your way to Texas and there isn't really a warm-up event out there. The Wintertime Open was a B tier this year. I guess maybe they considered the All Star thing a warm-up?

I mean I guess you don't need a warm up event. :\ Whatever, I just work here.

 

[Cgkdisc]

There's a test you can run in tee time rounds to confirm higher rated players tend to depress rather than boost round ratings. I gathered this data yesterday for round 2. The columns are Score, Rating, Score, Rating, (# of players) posted after that number of MPO players had completed their rounds. You can see how the round rating for the same score continues to decline as the scores of higher and higher rated players progressively get added to the ratings calculation. I didn't track the FPO in the same way but you can see the lower rated FPO pool got higher ratings for the same score in this round, perhaps due to "tougher" weather conditions on average earlier in the day when they played.

MPO
64 974, 58 1020 (12)
64 972, 58 1019 (28)
64 971, 58 1018 (51)
64 969, 58 1016 (63)
64 963, 58 1011 (115)

FPO
64 968, 58* 1015 (60) *Catrina's score

Most players don't see this progressive ratings reduction because you have to take snapshots of the updated results every so often while you're playing. This ratings progression usually doesn't happen during round 1 because groups are mostly random skill levels other than the feature card going last. By round 2, the field has been roughly sorted into progressively higher rated cards. By round 3, the field has been sorted even more.

 

[dehaas]

That sounds like a built in flaw of using tee times then?

I guess my question is, why do we care about ratings in the open divisions? Makes sense to have it for ams as a division differentiator. Open is open.

Especially now that we have all these additional stats, seems like a power ranking might be a better measuring stick amongst pros?

 

[foxdawg10]

My part of this discussion wasn't about whether par was set correctly for FPO and MPO, just reconfirming for those who weren't sure that ratings are calculated based on actual scores regardless of how par is set.

Of course. I know you are a guru of sorts and wasn't specifically addressing my point to you, more to clarify to the other poster that MPO and FPO pars are not the same number, so it isn't a valid comparison.

 

[foxdawg10]

There's a test you can run in tee time rounds to confirm higher rated players tend to depress rather than boost round ratings. I gathered this data yesterday for round 2. The columns are Score, Rating, Score, Rating, (# of players) posted after that number of MPO players had completed their rounds. You can see how the round rating for the same score continues to decline as the scores of higher and higher rated players progressively get added to the ratings calculation. I didn't track the FPO in the same way but you can see the lower rated FPO pool got higher ratings for the same score in this round, perhaps due to "tougher" weather conditions on average earlier in the day when they played.

MPO
64 974, 58 1020 (12)
64 972, 58 1019 (28)
64 971, 58 1018 (51)
64 969, 58 1016 (63)
64 963, 58 1011 (115)

FPO
64 968, 58* 1015 (60) *Catrina's score

Most players don't see this progressive ratings reduction because you have to take snapshots of the updated results every so often while you're playing. This ratings progression usually doesn't happen during round 1 because groups are mostly random skill levels other than the feature card going last. By round 2, the field has been roughly sorted into progressively higher rated cards. By round 3, the field has been sorted even more.

Round ratings are based on the field as a whole at the end of the round, so I am not sure why round ratings are even calculated and presented until all players have completed the round. If the tee times were reversed and higher rated players teed off first, this analysis would be reversed, but theoretically the round ratings at end of day would be exactly the same, right?

 

[shakatak]

I'm sure this is a question that has been asked before somewhere but why is McBeth not playing this one?

 

[Horsman]

I'm sure this is a question that has been asked before somewhere but why is McBeth not playing this one?

I looked in here for the answer a few days ago and I think I found that he didn't like that they were playing 3 separate courses and he didn't want to have to practice all of them.

 

[Jolt]

Putting is terrible for a few of the FPO players. . Henna at 13%C1x and Kona at 10% !!

Sure it´s a little windy but many players are still putting good, Kristin is at 100%.

Kona has lost 9 shots to Kristin inside the Circle just today.

 

[brutalbrutus]

 

[dehaas]

I heard he didn't want Ricky's sweatpant fashion sense rubbing off on him.

Stylin and profilin

 

[shakatak]

I looked in here for the answer a few days ago and I think I found that he didn't like that they were playing 3 separate courses and he didn't want to have to practice all of them.

Thanks. I looked too and couldn't find anything. I'm a McBeth fan but if that's true, that's kind of lame.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

I looked in here for the answer a few days ago and I think I found that he didn't like that they were playing 3 separate courses and he didn't want to have to practice all of them.

I'm with shakatak on here. I find that to be a lame excuse. Everyone else has to do the same thing.

I feel bad for what may be the most famous dove in history, but ...that never gets old.

 

[flatflip]

I'm with shakatak on here. I find that to be a lame excuse. Everyone else has to do the same thing.

And why do they have to play lame courses in the middle of winter, precisely?

 

[BogeyNoMore]

And why do they have to play lame courses in the middle of winter, precisely?

Many of us would prefer more DGPT events on wooded or at least well-balanced courses that were truly designed as DG courses, and fewer held on bolf courses, but that's a whole other debate.

That said...

If you host an event on multiple courses, it seems particularly lame when all the courses play similarly.