40 or over? Join the Divisional Tour Newsgroup

[shive]

Consider these six statements:

1) You will be 40 or older in 2016.
2) You would much rather play disc golf competitively than watch somebody else play it.
3) You enjoy a challenge, and don't want to be babied.
4) You wish that your division was as well treated as any other Pro division
5) You would occasionally travel regionally, perhaps nationally, or possibly even internationally to play in an event that offered good value to your division.
6) You wish that there were some way to identify such events well in advance.

If most of these statements describe you, then you should consider joining the Divisional Tour Newsgroup. The purpose of this newsgroup is "to identify, promote, and support exciting disc golf tournaments that offer good value to older players." To join, just send me ([email protected]) an email, and I will put you on our mailing list. You will then receive periodic updates that focus on such events.

The initial updates will compare the premises of our newsgroup with those of the PDGA and give some simple guidelines to help you identify "senior-friendly" events. You will be asked to nominate events that you believe would be attractive to us; later updates will comment on the best of these, and circulate other information of general interest to older players.

There is no fee to join. I do not share contact information with any third party, and I will remove your name from the mailing list immediately upon request.

 

[teemkey]

So this group is only for pros?

 

[Major Tomahawk]

^^^^No.

 

[shive]

to Teemkey:

Certainly the focus is on Pros, and the events that they would prefer. Amateur concerns are so different, and I can't cover all the bases. I've been a Pro for over 20 years, and probably wouldn't do a good job with the Ams.

Still, I have noticed that about 25% of our members are Amateurs. I have wondered why. Some of them may be considering going Pro. Others must find sufficient overlap in the topics we consider to make it worth their while. We even have a few Open players. They must be thinking along the lines of the title of an article I wrote long ago for the old Disc Golf World News: "Someday You'll be Old Too, and Then What"?

In any case, anyone is welcome to join.

 

[DavidSauls]

For a lot of us old Ams, everything but #4 applies.

Our assessment of what makes "good value" may be different, but it's not surprising that you have a fair number of ams in your membership.

Especially since one thing a lot of old Ams want, is to go to tournaments where there are a lot of other old---uh, mature---players, whether Am or Pro.

 

[Dr.Smooth]

Interesting what you are trying to accomplish. As I will be in that niche in 2017. It has gone so fast.

Good luck with the program.

 

[ScottyLove]

I traveled all over the country last year playing 36 tournaments in MG1... so I have a good idea of what tournaments offer for ams if anyone is interested. This year I'm staying more local, but will do another big tour in 2017. I've already mapped out 24 tournaments I plan to hit in 2017 and will be tweaking it throughout this year.

 

[IVER]

Perhaps you and Shive could join forces (I am AM).

 

[DiscFifty]

Just to clarify, do you run your own events or do you just promote PDGA events that appeal to us older dudes?

 

[shive]

to DiscFifty:

Yes, PDGA-sanctioned events. This often surprises members who think of me as PDGA critic.

My main criticism of the PDGA is simple. Tournament directors, Amateurs and older Pros provide the overwhelming majority of money and services to the PDGA, but the PDGA has a tendency to think of these people as cash cows and potential gallery members. The PDGA should do more for them. Far, far more.

That said, the PDGA does many fine, even indespensible things. For example, it codifies and enforces the rules and tour standards. It records and publishes statistics of all sorts. And, as a service that will become more important to you as you become older, it is a repository of the history of the game.

Finally, it can change for the better, sometimes rapidly. Example? Five years ago its information technology sector was a disaster. Now, after dumping its old contractor and hiring Steve Ganz, it is a strength. Communication is much improved. And online signup fees that were way out of line have become entirely reasonable, a considerable benefit to the membership.

 

[lyleoross]

If I can be so rude as to add my two cents, Peter is correct, The PDGA is an amazingly mature and very open organization. I know that may not seem to be the case for some, but I've been both in academic science, and the business world, and the PDGA is pretty good. That doesn't mean they can't be improved or shouldn't ever change. The PDGA didn't set out to use their older members as a cash cow, and they most assuredly value that membership, it's mature approach to the sport, and the leadership skills it brings. The truth of the matter is that if they recognized the value of that older segment in a different way, and nurtured it, they would probably get even more value from that group, and more growth of the sport.

There are many ways to grow disc golf. Business recognizes that there is a mature and very valuable age segment that they market to all the time. It's not the coveted 18 to 49 age group, it's the Baby Boomers. If you want a small perspective on their value read this: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...omers-most-valuable-generation_n_1791361.html

We have money, and we are willing to spend it. As Peter rightly points out, the PDGA might want to target the BBs a little more than they do. You don't want to neglect the younger players, but you certainly want to know where your leadership and money is.

 

[DavidSauls]

As an Advanced Grandmaster, I'm in both the older players and the am categories, and I don't see the PDGA treating me as a cash cow.

If there are complaints---or, perhaps, missed opportunities---it seems to me that they're with TDs.....and I'm one of them, too.

I get the impression that Peter is, in part, taking the positive approach: supporting events that support the older pros. Reading between the lines, I'm guessing this means events that don't have a "final round" for just the open division, with everyone else a captive gallery; or that equally allow the older players to compete on the best courses, from the best tees; or that distribute "added cash" to the seniors as well as open players.

 

[brian j]

Do you have a Facebook page?

 

[lyleoross]

As an Advanced Grandmaster, I'm in both the older players and the am categories, and I don't see the PDGA treating me as a cash cow.

If there are complaints---or, perhaps, missed opportunities---it seems to me that they're with TDs.....and I'm one of them, too.

I get the impression that Peter is, in part, taking the positive approach: supporting events that support the older pros. Reading between the lines, I'm guessing this means events that don't have a "final round" for just the open division, with everyone else a captive gallery; or that equally allow the older players to compete on the best courses, from the best tees; or that distribute "added cash" to the seniors as well as open players.

I haven't looked, and you may know better, I think what Peter is saying is that the payout is skewed towards the younger players in Pro. The old guys get less return on their entry than the young guys, player to player. Now that may be an over interpretation on my part.

Personally, that matters less to me than the PDGA understanding the value in older players and "considering" what that segment might want and how to bring value to it. Even that doesn't matter much to me, I'm having fun, but it seems like good business, and I'm a strong believer in being savvy about how you conduct your business.

 

[biscoe]

Reading between the lines, I'm guessing this means events that don't have a "final round" for just the open division, with everyone else a captive gallery; or that equally allow the older players to compete on the best courses, from the best tees; or that distribute "added cash" to the seniors as well as open players.

These have been his gripes in the past- presumably they still are.

 

[DavidSauls]

I'm just assuming. I don't actually know what Peter's motive is.

I find the cash one debatable as a gripe, though there's nothing wrong with spreading the word about tournaments where older pros are well-paid.

The other two gripes are shared by some of us older ams---I don't care for forced galleries, nor for missing out on the best courses or tees.

But, again, if he's not griping, but spreading the word about events that treat the older pros particularly well, I think that's great.

 

[JC17393]

I'm just assuming. I don't actually know what Peter's motive is.

I find the cash one debatable as a gripe, though there's nothing wrong with spreading the word about tournaments where older pros are well-paid.

The other two gripes are shared by some of us older ams---I don't care for forced galleries, nor for missing out on the best courses or tees.

But, again, if he's not griping, but spreading the word about events that treat the older pros particularly well, I think that's great.

I agree with you that spreading the word about "senior-friendly" events is a great thing. The only gripe I see any merit in, however, is the forced gallery thing...but that's not specific to older players so much as anyone not in a so-called featured division.

Nothing wrong, IMO, with filtering the bulk of any added cash to the divisions where the most players can get a crack at it. Older players can play MPO if they want to go for the money. Younger players aren't allowed to do the same if the money is in MPM or MPG or MPS. Same idea exists with regard to tees and layouts. The option is there for older players to play the tees and layouts they desire even if their preferred division isn't scheduled to play them.

If there are events that want to cater to older players, more power to them (no different than those that cater to women or juniors). And a newsletter or some other source that identifies those events and steers interested players towards them is great. It's probably a fools' errand to try to change the way TDs run otherwise successful events though.

 

[shive]

to DavidSauls: Exactly.

to brian j: I do have a Facebook account, but I rarely access it.

 

[DavidSauls]

I left out one of my wishlist items, as a senior Am---

More Senior-only tournaments.

 

[brutalbrutus]

http://www.pdga.com/tour/event/24452

No Kids Allowed Masters Englewood, OH July30

Just noticed this pop up on the event list. If any of you older gentlemen will be in the Dayton, OH area at the end of July, I would highly recommend this event. The TD is a great guy and I know several guys who had fun at last year's event. Just wish I was a couple years older so I could play myself...