Ask PDGA Board Member Peter Shive

[munky]

Supposedly she sent him emails as well but I will send some myself. Honestly this is complete crap.

 

[shive]

DNF/Tank

It's been interesting reading the "Penalty for DNF and Tanking" thread. I'd like to thank the folks who posted there, and also for the questions about it on my thread. At this point, of course, some questions don't have definitive answers -- the proof is in the pudding. We took our best shot, and we think this is the best remedy to try first.

At the same time we consider it a work in progress, because we will track the results very closely and adjust (after this year) as necessary.

 

[rebecca d]

I just want to thank Peter for taking on this task. I unfortunately, don't get on the forums too often but this has been an interesting read.

I also want to say great job to Peter on the radio show last night.

I just signed up for the forum and it would take me forever to read everything but I thought Peter's thread was a great start.

Rebecca

 

[Scoot_er]

Peter,

I was just wondering what area of study you practiced/teach. Also what classes are you currently teaching?

Thanks

 

[shive]

What have I taught?

Scoot er:

I started my career as a research geophysicist. I worked on continental drift in Africa, sea floor spreading, reversals of the earth's magnetic field, potential field analysis and seismology. I studied properties of rocks brought back from the moon by Apollo astronauts, and consulted with NASA, the US Geological Survey and various geoscience corporations. So I used to teach a variety of geophysics courses, mostly at the graduate level.

More recently I taught Calculus and Differential Equations in the Mathematics Department, and a course called "Chaos, Fractals and Complexity". Then I taught a literature/poetry/philosophy seminar in Honors ("The Consciousness of Nature"), and a course in Aboriginal culture called "Wyoming Walkabout". I also teach people how to play the didgerido.

Most recently (now) I'm updating the Chaos class and plan to offer it this Fall semester. Put it all together and it spells "dilettante". I like to do (and teach) as many different things as possible.

 

[discreid]

Peter,

Thanks for making yourself available to us.

Will the board be addressing the issue of the flexibility standards? Perhaps a public statement on whether or not pdga members need to be worried that their discs are legal. Or is this an issue that will strictly be between manufacturers and the pdga? If you've read any of the threads about stiff firebirds or wizards you've seen that there's a ton of speculation and unanswered questions.

Thanks again,
Reid.

 

[biscoe]

what was the required reading for your "consciousness of nature" course?

 

[shive]

The Consciousness of Nature reading list

biscoe:

Ishmael (Quinn), News of the Universe: Poems of Twofold Consciousness (Bly), Wilderness and the American Mind (Nash), The Control of Nature (McPhee), On Having No Head (Harding),

and parts of The Manufacture of Evil (Tiger), The Chalice and the Blade (Eisler), Daughters of Copper Woman (Cameron), and Steps to an Ecology of Mind (Bateson).

 

[shive]

stiff discs

discreid:

This is an issue that would first be taken up by the Technical Standards Committee. It has not yet been brought to the attention of the Board, so I can't answer your other questions yet. I'll give you my take on it if and when it reaches Board level. I do remember that a similar issue involving disc weights came up a few years ago, and that matter stayed between the PDGA and the manufacturers.

 

[IronJack]

biscoe:

Ishmael (Quinn), News of the Universe: Poems of Twofold Consciousness (Bly), Wilderness and the American Mind (Nash), The Control of Nature (McPhee), On Having No Head (Harding),

and parts of The Manufacture of Evil (Tiger), The Chalice and the Blade (Eisler), Daughters of Copper Woman (Cameron), and Steps to an Ecology of Mind (Bateson).

I read Ishmael twenty years ago and it continues to be the most influential book on my way of thinking ever since (even if there are some small parts I don't agree with). I will be checking out those other books you've listed.

 

[jenb]

The PDGA Board has asked the Statistics Committee to develop procedures with the goal to improve player compliance with the Competition Player Misconduct Rule 3.3 B(13) Deliberately seeking to manipulate ones player rating through intentional misplay or withdrawal.

While most DNFs result from obvious and legitimate causes such as serious injury or serious, unavoidable situations, some have also been attempts at manipulation, which were clear to fellow competitors and staff. The same is true of tanking (adding unnecessary throws in order to inflate a round score). Historically, these cases have been underreported for two primary reasons. It's currently not easy for other players and TDs to report the player and a specific penalty for not complying with the rule has never been listed.

Beginning in the 2013 competitive season, there will be a new result code (888) that TDs will enter on the TD report for the round score when players or TD wish to report their consensus that a player clearly attempted to have their round dropped to protect their rating by either not completing a round or by padding their score with extra throws.

We realize that this in some cases may be a judgement call, but we also ask the TD and the group to make other important judgment calls in our rules. We also feel that the players on the card and the TD are in the best position of anyone to provide vigilance on these practices.

Pros who receive an 888 will get a 5-pt rating deduction in the first ratings update after that event gets officially reported and that deduction will continue until the ratings update at least 6 months later. Ams will receive a rating deduction up to 5 pts or to the extent it does not drop them into a lower division. This deduction will also continue for at least 6 months.

Although not directly related to ratings manipulation, the 888 code can also be applied to players who DNF without giving the TD sufficient notice they would not be showing up for the next round. "Sufficient notice" is defined as at least 15 minutes prior to tee off assignment time. Players who DNF without such notice will be reported as an 888 code by the TD.

The Statistics Committee will also be tracking DNFs, Tanking and 888 codes this coming season to determine if any further actions are necessary. The intention, of course, is not simply to punish such unsportsmanlike and unprofessional behavior, but rather to draw attention to it and eliminate it from our play. We believe that this goal can be achieved with cooperation of players and event staff. We also trust that this policy will remove the perceived rating benefit of not finishing a round or taking excessive throws. The penalty, while not a very serious or long lasting one, is intended to achieve that purpose.

Additionally, we expect these procedures to improve player behavior in regards to informing staff when they intend to not participate in a round of play. This behavior is unprofessional and organizationally disruptive, but is not currently addressed in the rules.

I noticed that a doubles team got the 888 rating in all three rounds at Am World Dubs this weekend. What's the point of that? Doubles events don't get ratings, so it is difficult to see how that could be for ratings manipulation. I guess if they pulled a no call no show for the event, they could get 888 in the first round, but you ought to know they aren't going to show up for the second and third rounds. The failure to show for the first round ought to be ample notice for the latter rounds. What's the point in hitting them with a triple penalty?

 

[DannyThunders]

Where's my copies of Disc Golfer Magazine?

 

[shive]

to JenB:

Players would not normally receive individual ratings for doubles rounds, so this is not likely a ratings manipulation penalty. Probably the players did not show up and did not properly inform the TD.

 

[shive]

to DannyThunders:

Call the PDGA Office. They will be happy to help you out.

 

[biscoe]

Hi Peter,
One of the responsibilities of the BOD is "hiring and supervision" of the Executive Director. Obviously the BOD hired him but to what degree does "supervision" actually occur? How often is the ED subject to review?

thanks.

 

[shive]

to Biscoe:

The PDGA Board does a formal review of the Executive Director once a year in December.