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BlueBerry Hill vrs Flip City

Well if account #2 doesn't come back after posting his two poor reviews, I'll remove them both. The "other brother" left a decent review of high bridge unlike this guy. The writing style (lack of capitalization, punctuation, etc.) between the two is kind of similar so that is also kind of an alert.

Yelp is a lot bigger than, well.. me :) I don't have any fancy algorithms to move reviews around yet and the ones I'm planning wouldn't really address situations like this anyway.

Maybe this brett guy will come back, explain the 2 accounts from one IP, the disparity between the reviews, etc. At the very least, he can PM me with the info. If not, I'll just remove them both.

Very reasonable, indeed.

And in a few more years, this site will be bigger than Yelp, BIGGER THAN GOD!
 
This discussion is fascinating, and I can't help but throw my line in the water and see what happens.

I've never played HBH or Flip, but would like to. From the pictures and reviews it seems that HBH is part of a great complex of courses, and Flip is a great experience overall. Both sound nice.

I live close to Idlewild, and very much enjoy playing it. I don't get offended by those who say they like Lincoln Ridge (aka Banklick) better, or the reviewer that gave it one disc because he thought it was too hard. What's the point?

Does anyone really believe that fewer players will travel to their favorite course as a result of a bad review? Honestly, why do people get so personally offended because of this?

If you only want reviews that fall in line with what you think is reasonable, then only allow certified reviewers - make them pass a test like you would a PDGA TD. Sure, gimmick accounts and other nonsense should be filtered out when their offense is egregious, but such CSI-like investigation into a single review is silly (although entertaining to a degree).

As much as we would like to think otherwise, it's like a movie review - each reviewer has their own likes and dislikes. Can I imagine someone disliking Idlewild because it's too hard? Absolutely. Will some people want to come to Idlewild even more because a newbie got destroyed there? Probably.

Geez, you'd think someone was telling you that your kids are ugly.

Get over it, move on, and go play some disc golf...
 
I think what pisses me off most is that going back through HBH's reviews, I haven't seen some guy who loves flip going and reviewing unfairly low just to drive ratings down. the ones who rate low give solid logic and make sense. This guys review basically bad mouths those of us who play and love flip and gives us a two, not flip.
 
Well - I'm just glad that hopefully this isn't trolling. If it's real - awesome, and the review has been modified and is slightly better, (apart from the rating) so it's getting there. As always - give a course whatever rating you want as long as you can justify it. I don't think he has do this yet, but it would be nice if he would.
 
I really wish more people would review the others. Not only do I want to see more opinions about the open but niche filling Granite Ridge, and the par 68 Gold, but I'm DYING to hear about the full 18 hole Bear and whatever there is of Whitetail! I might abandon my Flip-Leviathan-Mason-Whitehall trip and go play the Bear and Whitetail if they were both complete. I'd be sure to hit Sandy point on the way back. And of course I'd be comparing them all to the variety of Winter Park.

I was just on a trip to Higbridge two weeks ago. I suppose I could write a review on the other courses, but none really leave the impression that Blueberry does. Gold has some great holes, but it also has some punishing ones that almost seem more of a chore to play (I am thinking of those from 3-7 I believe, a few sprinkled here and there from 11-17). It definitely has a few marquee holes like that 2000' (although only marked 1200) Hole 8.

Bear is not complete in a sense that it is its own course. After hole 8 it currently meets back up with Woodland Hills and you finish out the course playing Woodland 9-18. It has a few white baskets out there as well incase you are playing some of the combo courses that John is trying to set up (like Granite Berry)

As a complex, the trip is worth it for all the courses. Our amateur league has now gone up there two years straight and we are probably planning a third.

Granite is much like Gold. It has some great holes, more so than most courses I have ever played, but it is almost unplayable by yourself. You have to play with spotters and keep you eyes open. Blueberry is the only course up there that from start to finish has both safe and high risk/ high reward lines. When playing a solo round, you can work on staying in the fairway and approach shots, and while with a group where you trust your spotters you can really open it up and let them fly.

I have not played some of the other courses brought up in this debate, so I will not say Blueberry is better than them, but if it is not #1, it definitely deserves to be in the same conversation. I feel the same way about Blue Ribbon Pines. If Blueberry could be 27 holes like BRP, then I do not think there would be much of a discussion.
 
Get over it, move on, and go play some disc golf...


Simply said, but in effect missing the point.

A bad review, that is legitimate is perfectly fine. You played the course, you didn't like it, not your taste. Cool. We all like different things. Hell, maybe this dude likes getting his nuts nailed to a two by four and rates that a 5. To each their own. ( I personally give it a 3.5)

BUT, when there is malicious reviews and ratings for other purposes, as I believe obvious in this case, it lowers the value and standards of the review system, and in effect the whole site.

How many sites (shopping, music, etc) with no control of reviews do you use online with trust? A select few. They have earned the trust and respectability by filtering out the sh&t from the valuable insights.

In regards to Flip/Highberry (even in the past with Flip/Idlewild), it is VERY easy to tell when someone comes on this site and rates one a full 5, and the other way low and out of whack. It actually hasn't happened that often from what I recall. I still haven't seen the reverse yet with a Flip 5, and another a 2/3. Maybe it says a lot about the golfers who love Flip? Who love the spirit of the game.
 
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Just play it and review it! It's thoughtful reviews and stated opinion and facts that make reviews meaningful, not the rating. You write good reviews, add to the mix. I myself prefer the thoughtful 4-disc reviews of Winter Park over the plain and generic 5-disc reviews! (Except Dave242's review, especially the title!)

I'm with superberry. I'd love to hear what you thought of the course/complex.
 
Granite is much like Gold. It has some great holes, more so than most courses I have ever played, but it is almost unplayable by yourself. You have to play with spotters and keep you eyes open. Blueberry is the only course up there that from start to finish has both safe and high risk/ high reward lines. When playing a solo round, you can work on staying in the fairway and approach shots, and while with a group where you trust your spotters you can really open it up and let them fly.

Maybe I was having a good round, but when I was up there in July I played all the courses once and Blueberry twice and didn't really have any problems finding my discs. I will say on hole 1 of the Gold course I lost a second shot when I tried to very aggressive turnover with a Teebird. But I must have just been looking in the wrong place because by the time I got done with that round it was sitting on the windshield of my car waiting for me :hfive:
 
Reviewing a course just to affect the rating is lame. Flip will survive just like Idle survived the Machismo in training twins, only 1 was removed. It's just course pride and sometimes just people that like to stir the pot. Not too many of us actually believe Flip is a 2 or Idle is a 1. I just assume that the top 50 are at least all fours, if not better.
 
from his latest review:

"-Having only 2 holes >400
-Most holes were between 200-300ft most being at the low end of that totem pole.
-11 of the holes were 200ft or below."

sounds like he played the am tees. no big deal.

"-Tee pads did not have a good enough brush they were rather slick when i played after some rain."

but the am tees don't have tee pads...?

"-Looks pretty in the fall.."

played once, on September 1st, 2010. not quite fall yet.

THIS ^^^^^^^
 
PS...don't ya just love a good online disc golf controversy/caper?

...especially since it's raining outside. :)
 
Maybe it says a lot about the golfers who love Flip? Who love the spirit of the game.

While I agree with you in regards to why some people may love Flip (and granted I havent been to either Flip or Blueberry), many people who play disc golf don't get this above mentioned "spirit" of the game. Some play it as something to do while they are stoned. Some people play it for exercise alone. Some play it for the ultimate challenge. Some play it for the competetion amongst friends. Some play it because they want to get out of the house and away from a spouse or children.

My point is we can't know why anyone person plays this game unless we ask or they tell us. While I play it for multiple reasons like, I like walking in the woods, I like the challenge of tough courses, I like to admire natural surrounding, I love animal watching around dawn on the course, I love being the first person to a course on any given day, I love the spirit of competition, I love playing different courses and admiring and learning more about good course design.

A peson like me can appreciate Flip and BBH equally and thus give them both 5's (or whatever I decide they are worth) but for different reasons. I know most of you out there arent golf fans, but this argument is akin to discussing that Augusta National is the best because it is the most beautiful pristine courses in world, and comparing it to St. Andrews the oldest course in the worl, where golf originated. Two totally different courses manicured completely differently, but I would give my left one to play either course some day. Some people would be snobs and not understand the draw of St. Andrews, and then some who are more of the purists would appreciate the history of St. Andrews but not appreciate the manicured fairways and azaleas and the lush turf of Augusta.

A Milwaukee example for you Tom would be that I have rated Valley View equally to Estabrook and Miniwaukan. Valley view is a mess, it is wet most of the time, weeds are tall and unkept. But I love it for the pure enjoyment of trying to shoot double digits underpar. Some people think it is a trash course, but I see value in it. Take Estabrook, where the first 8 holes are kindof boring (except 1 or 2 IMO) the back 9 has some better and longer holes, but the course is in pretty good shape. The turf is always mowed. Or Miniwaukan, its a fairly open course with smattering of mature oak trees. It is longer than both other courses (I believe) but it generally in good shape. I like them all for different reasons. And if you were to read my short dissertation about how I RATE courses in my profile, I RATE them based on the likelihood that I would return if all things were equal. So if every course in the world was 5 minutes from me they are all on the same field. I REVIEW them based upon their scenery, the infrastructure, the design, the challenge, the beginner friendliness, etc etc etc.

This wasn't geared just to you Tom, but I knew you could relate to my points here. Some people just need to realize not everyone values the same things. It would seem clear that if this new Drive by reviewer were real and consistant he would continue to rate course like BBH, Idlewild, maple hill, high. He would rate nicely maintained less challenging courses like Flip lower. Time will tell if he will still be with us. The issue in the whole thing is not if he truly feels what he says, but if he did it only to drop flip and raise bbh. Thats just lame!
 
Either:
1.Fake
2. or an incredibly overzealous Highberry fan with no comprehension of what 98% of disc golfers are looking for.


I go with the first.

Shot "reds" then "whites"? There isn't such a thing.

-7? for 24. Now I know I don't believe you. Unfriendly people? Definitely not Flip. It's a private course where the only time you may run into more than four or five people on the course is during leagues or a tourney. Which day did you play? Exact day and time? Hmmm?

All in all, your EPIC FAIL is lame. Completely.

PS ...for "just joining" the site, you sure seem to know a lot about the back history of fake reviews/local reviews/statitics/etc around here.

I smell another rat.
:clap::clap:

LOL!!!
ROFFL!!!

2nd 'F' is completely intentional!


Brettsupp, I genuinely look forward to reading more of your reviews - particularly of courses I've played, 'cause since I don't get out much, I guess I'll have to rely on you to do the travelling for me. ;)

Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion, and you can pretty much say what you want in a review. But to me, seeing's believing. I know what I saw, and I saw it with crystal clarity. I will concede that there are courses that have a more of a Championship Caliber feel than flip - said so in my review, but saying it's easy? :confused: 7 under easy??? Exactly which disc has your signature on it? - gotta get me one of those!

1) Even if someone doesn't think Flip's a 5, there's no way anyone who's actually played it could ever categorize it as being merely "decent" or "typical." Suggest you consult a dictionary.

2) I wish every 2.5 rated course played like Flip - oh what a world THAT would be!!!:)
 
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Tom - why make all this fuss over an allegedly bogus review of Flip while there are many other reviews that could be similarly questioned? So you have a bias towards Flip - fine.

In saying this kind of review lowers the value and standards of the system and in effect the whole site, in my opinion you are taking it a bit too far. Most of us don't need help figuring out which reviews are sincere, well thought-out efforts to share an experience vs. ones written by some bonehead who has an agenda or simply doesn't understand what people are looking for in a review. We don't need you to call it out and make sure that everyone realizes how wrong they are or claim fraud - give the rest of us some credit.

This site gives you the ability to :thmbup: or :thmbdown: a review - why not leave it at that? By rattling his cage, the heretic who wrote this review is probably changing his rating just to get a reaction from you. If so, he was successful...
 
funny that he has rated Highbridge a 5 and Flip a 2... regardless, I doubt Flip should get a 2. 2 is an average course with no cement teepads (as an example) and just a basic OK experience or a somewhat decent 9 hole course. Even if brettsup didn't like it 2 discs is just a terrible job of reviewing... 3 or 3.5 at the least would have been acceptable... I'm with you Tom... there is just no good excuse

it's one thing to derail threads around here but an altogether different thing to provide obviously bad reviews (or too good ones)... I for one rely heavily on the reviews and so many other users who don't post but just use the reviews and other tools provided here...

I'm very disappointed and yes, I take the review area very seriously as well
 
funny that he has rated Highbridge a 5 and Flip a 2... regardless, I doubt Flip should get a 2. 2 is an average course with no cement teepads (as an example) and just a basic OK experience or a somewhat decent 9 hole course. Even if brettsup didn't like it 2 discs is just a terrible job of reviewing... 3 or 3.5 at the least would have been acceptable... I'm with you Tom... there is just no good excuse

it's one thing to derail threads around here but an altogether different thing to provide obviously bad reviews (or too good ones)... I for one rely heavily on the reviews and so many other users who don't post but just use the reviews and other tools provided here...

I'm very disappointed and yes, I take the review area very seriously as well

The site is called DGcoursereview for a reason . . . yet its funny how much emphasis is put on the Rating. Timg maybe you could start a sister site DGCourserating.com
 
Tom - why make all this fuss over an allegedly bogus review of Flip while there are many other reviews that could be similarly questioned? So you have a bias towards Flip - fine.


Not even going to finish reading the rest of your post because you missed my point above that I stated MULTIPLE times. Reread it and you will see it isn't Flip biased and the BOTTOM LINE has nothing to do with Flip. It just happens to be a scenario that clearly is demonstrated in this duplicate/ double account/biased idiots review.

..ok, read the rest of your post. ;)
 
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The site is called DGcoursereview for a reason . . . yet its funny how much emphasis is put on the Rating. Timg maybe you could start a sister site DGCourserating.com

Let's just split hairs why don't we?

The rating is directly related to the review.

I'm a pretty reasonable person and I just can't see that that was a reasonable review. I'm sorry, I don't know what was up with brettsup but I just can't get behind his defense. That's all I'm saying. Something is off here.
 
The issue in the whole thing is not if he truly feels what he says, but if he did it only to drop flip and raise bbh. Thats just lame!

Mike, once again I agree with you 100%! funny how that happens...

and yes, the main issue is the latter which you state, and it truly is important to the continued credibility of this site, especially since (believe it or not) it is dealing with a niche portion of our society and experiences online.
 
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