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DGPT: 2019 San Francisco Open presented by AbsoluteXtracts 10-May to 12-May-2019

Success is not measured by the percent of violations that get called, it is measured by how often players are playing according to the rules.

At the very top level (Paul) that seems to be about 100%. Of course that percentage goes down as the level of play goes down. That doesn't mean the system is broken.
 
This is pretty good overall, isn't it?

For MPO, hard to say. There's no way to compare one course to another. I don't see any red flags. Rather, I view these charts as a way to focus efforts for the next round of improvements.

For FPO, Hole 11 is useless. Just about everybody got a 3. Doing anything to that hole would be an improvement. It would also seem to be very easy to improve 13 and 9 as well.
 
There's too much at stake for someone to make a call (even a legitimate one) on another player and have it not be a conflict of interest.

I would argue that there is actually too little at stake for the calls to be made rather than too much. See traditional golf for example of sport where there is too much at stake for calls not to be made.
 
I was able to watch the final FPO round of the SFO last night. Yes, Cat foot-faulted (and right badly) on that one shot we had still shots of earlier. She foot-faulted another few times, and also had times where the shot was legal but she was still to the right side of the marker disc.

So (and this is not excusing her, just observing) I suspect she's gotten into the habit of being to the right of the disc and sometimes steps too far. This appears to be sloppiness as opposed to malicious cheating to get an advantage (like last year's Wysocki/Nikko/McCray incident was). Yes, some will say it's 'cheating' because she's violating the rules and not self-calling, and I'd agree, but I don't think it's 'malicious'.

IMHO if Cat was called for these a couple of times, she'd be sure to clean it up (after making revenge calls). In fact, if someone brought it to her attention between tournaments ("hey Cat, those DGCR people are saying you're foot-faulting; might want to check that out!") she'd get correct on it.

As to making the calls on her? Who's going to bell that cat? (pun fully intended)
 
I have never really looked for this before, but after that slowmo ( Jomez ? ) i started to look where she plants her foot. . and it is often way of. . .
And as you need to be behind your mini/disc NOT out to the side of your disc, she is often to far forward. . and even steps on the disc quite often.

I don´t think she is aware of this, or does it on purpose. . . but i think if she looks at the videos and becomes aware of it she can fix it.

But i do think the comentators should point it out on any player
 
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During the live round when Cat got up to throw from the fairway me and others in the live chat called foot faults before she threw, each time we were correct.

That's how bad she's gotten with those fouls.
 
Rules guys.... what's the new(ish) rule regarding stance location behind the disc? Isn't it a rectangle or something now and not just immediately behind the center of the marker? (I haven't watched the video/violations at all yet and just wondered. I am not making any sort of judgement about the calls at all. )

And wouldn't self calling be very hard? I mean if you have a run up in the fairway, who is looking at their own feet?
 
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Rules guys.... what's the new(ish) rule regarding stance location behind the disc? Isn't it a rectangle or something now and not just immediately behind the center of the marker? (I haven't watched the video/violations at all yet and just wondered. )

Rectangle roughly the size of piece of notebook paper.
 
Rules guys.... what's the new(ish) rule regarding stance location behind the disc? Isn't it a rectangle or something now and not just immediately behind the center of the marker? (I haven't watched the video/violations at all yet and just wondered. I am not making any sort of judgement about the calls at all. )

And wouldn't self calling be very hard? I mean if you have a run up in the fairway, who is looking at their own feet?

look at page 10 . . post #98 in this thread

20x30cm BEHIND the mini or disc
 
So (and this is not excusing her, just observing) I suspect she's gotten into the habit of being to the right of the disc and sometimes steps too far. This appears to be sloppiness as opposed to malicious cheating to get an advantage (like last year's Wysocki/Nikko/McCray incident was). Yes, some will say it's 'cheating' because she's violating the rules and not self-calling, and I'd agree, but I don't think it's 'malicious'.

What the hell is a malicious foot fault?
I still disagree that Wysocki's was intentional. He abbreviated his last stride trying to hit the line mid throw. His last stride is naturally very long... which lead to all of those cart path foot faults. Nikko knew his line would be impossible to hit from the lie and watched and was right. Ricky was probably aware he probably foot-faulted but competitive moment and not wanting or trying to a LOT of doubt can creep into one's head and that small amount of uncertainty is enough to not want to self call.

It is tough and I think in general the sport can survive on self policing but at the highest level it will need officials on each hole or card. The specific issue with foot faults is they seem personal. OB calls and scorecard errors and a lot of other calls can be looked at as a lot more impartial and even summed up as "the disc landed here" where as a foot fault by nature seems more accusatory "YOU foot faulted".

I have a lot more experience at a variety of levels of many different sports. From player, captain, coach, dad, uncle, spectator, volunteer official and paid referee. Having any call that goes against a player be taken as a personal attack is pretty common in so many areas and it is a very difficult thing that some officials develop a very defensive attitude prior to making calls as a result.
I would say in my experiences, no everyone has the mindset to be a good official. Recognizing an infraction and calling it impartially in real time can be a lot harder than it seems it should be. Especially when as pointed out with some of these there is no malicious intent or maybe even the intent was obvious to play within the rules. Ive seen it a bit on vaguely defined OB areas. The amount of gymnastics a card will go through to try and make a throw in bounds can be a bit extreme, and sometimes when it is clearly OB there is can be an almost apologetic nature to the OB call.
As an official in some sports i know I'm bad at it. Why? Because I love watching the sport and become a spectator pretty quickly and real time calls are very difficult. I'm watching for an outcome, i'm watching to see if the disc hits the line I expect or amazed at the flight when a line I don't expect to be thrown is accomplished. staying in the mindset of a referee can be for many of us harder than it seems it should. The other is just flat out sympathy that yes there is not a lot of wiggle room for a call but sometimes it doesn't seem like a huge error and the punishment doesn't feel like it fits the crime... thats where the interpretation of intent comes in or if they "didn't miss the mark by that much" or tried to hit the mark... big gray area that changes from individual to individual observing and sometimes a stroke seems like a pretty weighty penalty for something that was unintentional and maybe only off by an inch.

Watching swimming I have realized I cannot be a judge. It pains me to watch kids get DQ'd, or worse whole relay teams get DQ'd for many very small infractions, some that area so minor they are hard to see and many don't actually effect the outcome of a race. There is an argument I get, and I understand just like foot faults as JayDub pointed out, it takes focus away from your shot (ie Ricky's concentrating on his unmakable line) and therefore it does create a bigger advantage even if it looks minor or inconsequential when there are others focusing very hard on hitting that lie or keeping their swim stroke legal. It is still, in the moment hard to remember that, letting go of even these small things is wholly unfair to those who work so hard to ensure they are getting it right and play 100% within the rules... and also it isn't personal its simply enforcing the rules of the game.

It would be a big culture shift to get the whole sport up to speed.
 
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Rules guys.... what's the new(ish) rule regarding stance location behind the disc? Isn't it a rectangle or something now and not just immediately behind the center of the marker? (I haven't watched the video/violations at all yet and just wondered. I am not making any sort of judgement about the calls at all. )

And wouldn't self calling be very hard? I mean if you have a run up in the fairway, who is looking at their own feet?

Stepping on your disc is a sure sign of a foot fault. Her disc flipped up once because of her plant foot.
 
I still disagree that Wysocki's was intentional.

Then we disagree, and completely. I think Wysocki DID intentionally cheat to make that throw, and I think JohnE McCray DID intentionally not call/confirm it though he was standing right there and IMO saw it. And neither you nor anyone else will ever change my mind on that. Ever.

What the hell is a malicious foot fault?

As I was using the term, it is a foot fault with the purpose and intent to cheat to gain an advantage, like what Wysocki did that Nikko called and McCray refused to confirm.

Some of Wysocki's other foot faults, such as the one called when he was throwing off the tee, were not malicious, just errors of stride. IMO most of Cat's mis-steps are not maliciously intentional, i.e. she's not trying to cheat to get an advantage...though I don't understand how she cannot know she stepped on her marker when she does that.
 
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Well, its like that in most sports. . if you miss the long jump board by a millimeter the jump does not count. . it would be SOO
so much easier if you did not have to hit the plank and they just measured from were you plant the foot.

A big point of most sports IS to hit your mark. . if you dont you should be penalized. . . especially at the highest level

You cant make a rule that you have to hit a 20x30cm mark. . and then say " if you just try to hit it thats ok , just try. . and if you miss thats ok" . . how many sports will accept that?
 
You cant make a rule that you have to hit a 20x30cm mark. . and then say " if you just try to hit it thats ok , just try. . and if you miss thats ok" . . how many sports will accept that?

Unfortunately a lot, and especially at the highest level. It is one of the reasons I really dislike watching NBA basketball and some teams/regions play soccer. There are very clearly written rules that just seem to be taken that as "well if it isn't too egregious isn't worth the call". Traveling in basketball. When does it happen in the NBA? every few seconds it would seem. when is it called? Never? I've never seen it called anyway. Try calling someone for traveling in a pickup game as XCeddy mentioned... might turn into a brawl... As I said, changing the culture would be hard, partly because foot faults seem to be taken a bit like traveling in the NBA, and keeping it impersonal and impartial is also pretty difficult... ie insisting it may have been done maliciously in order to cheat.
 
Well i´m Swedish so i have never seen a Basketball match in my life ;) . . But sure i can see your point.

But in Soccer at least they have a referee that tries to make the hard calls. . self judge Soccer would be a massacre
 
Then we disagree, and completely. I think Wysocki DID intentionally cheat to make that throw, and I think JohnE McCray DID intentionally not call/confirm it though he was standing right there and IMO saw it. And neither you nor anyone else will ever change my mind on that. Ever.



As I was using the term, it is a foot fault with the purpose and intent to cheat to gain an advantage, like what Wysocki did that Nikko called and McCray refused to confirm.

Some of Wysocki's other foot faults, such as the one called when he was throwing off the tee, were not malicious, just errors of stride. IMO most of Cat's mis-steps are not maliciously intentional, i.e. she's not trying to cheat to get an advantage...though I don't understand how she cannot know she stepped on her marker when she does that.

It all depends on what your definition of intentional is. I don't think Ricky thought, "I'm gonna run up to the side." Instead, he looked at the lie, then ignored it, or pretended that he was running into his lie while instead stepping into a clearer lie. He didn't consciously think about it.

I feel that way cause while Ricky foot faults plenty, he doesn't do it by nearly as much as he did on that throw. He was way off his lie. That makes it easy to think he consciously cheated, but if you spend any time reading up on cultural pressure, you'll see that for the most part we are trained by society not to lie and cheat, pretty substantially. We only do it when we convince ourselves that our cheating is fair, or justified. Those folks who actively cheat and believe they are gaining an advantage are usually mentally unstable, psychotic so to speak. There is no scenario I see where Ricky is either psychotic or able to justify cheating in that case. So he fudged around the edges.

As for JE, same difference. To get to a place where he purposefully didn't make the call, you have to go through some mental instability. It is much easier to find a justification path, "no one calls those," or he really didn't see it.

Cat is the same. She is going with the mindset, "everyone does it., why should I pay a price?"

That's a bit disingenuous. Not everyone does do it.

If you don't believe what I'm proposing here, do some reading on lying and fitting into society. Read, "Spy The Lie." Written by a couple of CIA analysts. We are so hardwired not to lie and cheat that it makes it very easy to read the tells in terrorists and other major criminals. We just don't do it well, even with practice. Again, with the exception that we feel it is justified.

You will note that I've not touched on politics, but you can spot those guys lying all the time. Even the ones who lie frequently have a bunch of tells.
 
As for JE, same difference. To get to a place where he purposefully didn't make the call, you have to go through some mental instability. It is much easier to find a justification path, "no one calls those," or he really didn't see it.

Cat is the same. She is going with the mindset, "everyone does it., why should I pay a price?"

In my experience, there is another factor and it is the self doubt I had mentioned. It comes into play in real time calls, and even more so in self calling. Did I do that? Did I see that? On many calls that split second of indecision turns into essentially beyond a reasonable doubt and calls don't get made. As a sports watcher it can be then blown up as "how does a referee not see that blatant stuff right in front of them?" It occurs with paid, trained referees at the highest level who are watching with a trained eye. It is very easily explained with JE and Ricky on that particular fault as they were watching the throw and not the feet and after Nikko called it they look and the question is "did he step back?" where were his feet in the throw? ... "I didn't see it."

I've experienced this on all sides in other sports.
 
That OB for Simon on hole 16 R3 was the wíerdest groundplay and OB i have seen
 
In my experience, there is another factor and it is the self doubt I had mentioned. It comes into play in real time calls, and even more so in self calling. Did I do that? Did I see that? On many calls that split second of indecision turns into essentially beyond a reasonable doubt and calls don't get made. As a sports watcher it can be then blown up as "how does a referee not see that blatant stuff right in front of them?" It occurs with paid, trained referees at the highest level who are watching with a trained eye. It is very easily explained with JE and Ricky on that particular fault as they were watching the throw and not the feet and after Nikko called it they look and the question is "did he step back?" where were his feet in the throw? ... "I didn't see it."

I've experienced this on all sides in other sports.
NO! We're disc golf! We're special! NO ONE UNDERSTANDS US!

*goes into a corner and curls up listening to Simple Plan*
 
I know a lot of players are going to hate it but all this foot fault and call talk still has me going back to "stand and deliver" for all throws other than the drive, no more runups or jump putts and you take a large part of the uncertainty equation away
 

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