Help with my backhand..

[FstFrank]

Hey guys i'm guess what you can call in the intermediate level and play at scarboro hills in Maryland. But anyhow I need serious work on my driving. I recently purchased a Groove and read that takes a very advanced player to throw it. But back on topic my driving might be my most mysterious part of my game, for instance one drive on a par three will be a extreme hyzer and i'll have to make a good second shot to save par, then i'll just drive again if theres nobody playing behind me and it will glide beautifully and hyzer late just how I wanted it, but obviously that one doesn't count haha.

Im just asking for your guys imput on how I can be more consistent on my drives, because I used to not be able to drive at all backhand but now that ive incorporated it in my game if I can almost perfect it i'll be that much better.

Drivers in my bag that are my main users include:

Champion Valkyrie (seems to be my most consistent)
Star Tee Rex (Just traded for it and have had some nice shots with it and great distance)
Champion Groove ( Hard as **** to throw, def. take some getting used to but well worth it seems like)


Thanks for anyone that read all this and can help me out.... appreciate in advance and look forward to hearing your advice!

 

[drickanderson]

Grooves are inconsistent in and of themselves. I'd stick with that valk.

 

[FstFrank]

Grooves are inconsistent in and of themselves. I'd stick with that valk.

Just payed 16 dollars for it, cant just shelf it haha. And no disrespect but you still didn't help me except tell me what disc to stick with. I think it's more technique then anything, but not sure what i'm doing wrong.

 

[samfoy]

Just payed 16 dollars for it, cant just shelf it haha. And no disrespect but you still didn't help me except tell me what disc to stick with. I think it's more technique then anything, but not sure what i'm doing wrong.

Whoa buddy. You don't understand... If there is something wrong and you don't know what it is.. you absolutely need to shelf the groove for now. Purchasing it was a mistake. You have forfeited the money there... don't forfeit the potential to improve in disc golf as well because you feel that you need to justify your purchase by throwing ****ty disc that you shouldn't be throwing even if your form was wonderful.

The Valkyrie is the only driver in your bag worth having really. Someone struggling with consistency to the degree you are saying you struggle should not be throwing the two higher speed drivers you are throwing (I don't think anyone should really be throwing either of those discs, not Innova's most shining moments).

Take the advice that everyone later wishes they had at the earlier part of their disc golf career. Disc the hell down. Get yourself a leopard and learn how to throw it consistently. Get a tee-bird or an eagle and learn it. If you struggle with OAT go and do what I spent this evening doing, throwing under-stable discs on a hyzer. Repeat this over and over again until you have consistency and then pick the Valkyrie up again. And when you are ready for higher speed discs, stay away from the two you have picked up thus far. Try a Beast or an Orc.. then a Wraith.. then maybe a Destroyer... Most likely... it will be a while before you are at the point that you should be throwing those.

Now... for more information... How far.. realistically are you throwing these discs? How far are you throwing your mids? Putters? It seems that most of your consistency problem is nose angle related from how you described one shot will hyzer extreme and the next will go how you want it... It is either that or you are throwing discs way to fast for you and the first shot is doing what the disc will naturally do when thrown slow... hyzer out... and then you are compensating with OAT in your second shot...

 

[ElementZ]

Whoa buddy. You don't understand... If there is something wrong and you don't know what it is.. you absolutely need to shelf the groove for now. Purchasing it was a mistake. You have forfeited the money there... don't forfeit the potential to improve in disc golf as well because you feel that you need to justify your purchase by throwing ****ty disc that you shouldn't be throwing even if your form was wonderful.

The Valkyrie is the only driver in your bag worth having really. Someone struggling with consistency to the degree you are saying you struggle should not be throwing the two higher speed drivers you are throwing (I don't think anyone should really be throwing either of those discs, not Innova's most shining moments).

Take the advice that everyone later wishes they had at the earlier part of their disc golf career. Disc the hell down. Get yourself a leopard and learn how to throw it consistently. Get a tee-bird or an eagle and learn it. If you struggle with OAT go and do what I spent this evening doing, throwing under-stable discs on a hyzer. Repeat this over and over again until you have consistency and then pick the Valkyrie up again. And when you are ready for higher speed discs, stay away from the two you have picked up thus far. Try a Beast or an Orc.. then a Wraith.. then maybe a Destroyer... Most likely... it will be a while before you are at the point that you should be throwing those.

Now... for more information... How far.. realistically are you throwing these discs? How far are you throwing your mids? Putters? It seems that most of your consistency problem is nose angle related from how you described one shot will hyzer extreme and the next will go how you want it... It is either that or you are throwing discs way to fast for you and the first shot is doing what the disc will naturally do when thrown slow... hyzer out... and then you are compensating with OAT in your second shot...

FWIW, this is a great post. My second driver ever was a Groove and it was one of the biggest mistakes I ever made. I couldn't throw it backhand without flying straight up and stalling out, so I switched to forehand. I played FH for 2 years and then I realized that BH gives you significantly more accuracy, consistency, and distance potential. Trust his post. Put the Groove in the closet for now.

 

[E-man]

.. you absolutely need to shelf the groove for now. Purchasing it was a mistake. You have forfeited the money there... don't forfeit the potential to improve in disc golf as well because you feel that you need to justify your purchase by throwing ****ty disc that you shouldn't be throwing even if your form was wonderful.

The Valkyrie is the only driver in your bag worth having really.

Do what that guy says and also watch videos/read about disc golf. Last but not least, play disc golf. Play, play, play. With experience comes an abundance of discs that you will just leave in your closet.

Just payed 16 dollars for it, cant just shelf it haha. And no disrespect but you still didn't help me except tell me what disc to stick with. I think it's more technique then anything, but not sure what i'm doing wrong.

Every so often, one has to "chalk it up". :|

 

[412Disc]

try and trade or sell the groove in the marketplace? ...I doubt it will sell/trade though

 

[FstFrank]

try and trade or sell the groove in the marketplace? ...I doubt it will sell/trade though

Why is that you guys dislike the groove? honest question..

 

[b-ry]

Frank listen to what these guys are saying I was trying to throw a nuke and boss and all sorts of high power stuff and couldn't throw it as far as I should throw a mid range. Coming from someone who is still learning the sport take the advice from here watch videos and try and throw something like a buzz. If its comfortable to you anyways I personally love this disc and throw that for the majority of my shotsuntil I get some more distance on it. But in the week since I have disc downed I bet I've gained atleast upwards of 60 or 70'. And like they said work on ur teq. And play play play I've thrown 12 rounds since last Friday. Good luck

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Why is that you guys dislike the groove? honest question..

It is just a very inconsistent disc to throw. I carried one for a while after liking the Monarch and thought it would be a good longer counter part but really only liked it for forehand shots which needed lots of room to fly. The disc often holds a turn too long or flips over oddly specially with any wind. Every groove tends to be a little different with some super overstable and other very understable. I will go far if you can throw it perfectly but no one has perfect form here.

Good discs are about consistency and reliability-- I want to know how the disc will react when I throw it and preform the same time and time again which the groove will not. You will get some huge hyzers, odd rollers and nice long flex shots but the angle of release and speed required to make the groove fly these ways is very touchy.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

If you break it into hell (wear it down a lot) you should be able to hyzer flip the disc and throw long anhyzer shots also but when new they are unpredictable and just hard discs to try and throw properly... Having a high speed disc like that will likely cause issues with your form because your timing is not on spot to be throwing such a fast disc. I can throw a fuse 400+ feet and very accurately and is a slower midrange disc.... Speed rating on a disc does not mean it will go further.

@B-ry -- well said!

 

[cohunter]

I too don't understand the hate for the Groove. I throw one and love it! I have only played for 6 months but I can drive great FH with it. Working on the backhand with the Groove. I personally think it is the thrower not the disc. There is a reason why disc makers make so many variations of discs. One may work for you and another won't. I can't throw the Orc straight to save my life

 

[gianetics]

if you lose your groove and buy another it probably wont be anything like the one you spent so much time learning.

 

[drickanderson]

I too don't understand the hate for the Groove. I throw one and love it! I have only played for 6 months but I can drive great FH with it. Working on the backhand with the Groove. I personally think it is the thrower not the disc. There is a reason why disc makers make so many variations of discs. One may work for you and another won't. I can't throw the Orc straight to save my life

Just wait until you start getting them out to around 400'. They get REALLY squirrelly, and rarely do the same thing twice in a row. People talk a lot about the inconsistencies between discs, but the disc itself has very inconsistent flight characteristics.

Throwing the same disc can result in one throw throw turning into the ground, while the next one looks like it's flexing out nicely, but then it goes nose up and dies when fading out. A little breeze can change the way it flies drastically. I honestly think that putting a groove in the wing of a speed 13 disc resulted in the single most wind sensitive disc on the market.

I own 3 of them, and they sit in the garage.

 

[sidewinder22]

Hey guys i'm guess what you can call in the intermediate level and play at scarboro hills in Maryland. But anyhow I need serious work on my driving. I recently purchased a Groove and read that takes a very advanced player to throw it. But back on topic my driving might be my most mysterious part of my game, for instance one drive on a par three will be a extreme hyzer and i'll have to make a good second shot to save par, then i'll just drive again if theres nobody playing behind me and it will glide beautifully and hyzer late just how I wanted it, but obviously that one doesn't count haha.

Im just asking for your guys imput on how I can be more consistent on my drives, because I used to not be able to drive at all backhand but now that ive incorporated it in my game if I can almost perfect it i'll be that much better.

Drivers in my bag that are my main users include:

Champion Valkyrie (seems to be my most consistent)
Star Tee Rex (Just traded for it and have had some nice shots with it and great distance)
Champion Groove (Hard as **** to throw, def. take some getting used to but well worth it seems like)


Thanks for anyone that read all this and can help me out.... appreciate in advance and look forward to hearing your advice!

You answered your own question about the Groove, and as everyone else is saying...put down the Groove, kick it away, and never look back. As a general rule of thumb, the faster the disc, the harder to control. IMO you shouldn't even be throwing any of your drivers listed yet. I would stick with Speed 7 and below until you learn to throw them properly. Faster doesn't mean more distance, and the two longest throws officially are from the Valkyrie and Teebird. Best thing you can do for practice is to go to field and drive your putters and mids. Work on getting your putters out to 250' or better. You may notice that no matter what disc you throw they will all end up within 20' distance of each other until you learn proper form, or you may find that your putters turn and burn indicating massive OAT issues. Check out the links in the technique sticky:
http://ripsychotherapy.com/pdf/RightPecDrill.pdf
http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26165

 

[Martin Dewgarita]

The groove is good for grenades, and I used to use it for a dog toy...

 

[Dsplayname]

I have had precisely 2 Grooves that worked well for me. I have tried 2 others that were crap. I am in the "it's an inconsistent mold, and therefore cannot be trusted early on" camp.
That being said, disc selection, for me, is less important that technique and form. Practice might not make you perfect, but it will make you better. Good backhand drives are all about technique and timing. I would say to try some stationary drives to work your form, then work up to one or two steps, and still focus on timing the most. You, ideally, want a nice smooth pull-through that is level and release the disc flat. I don't know how you throw, or anything to give real, specific advice, but you want to work on a smooth pull with a flat release and full follow-through. Accuracy before distance. Once you can maintain a good pull through and follow through, start putting some snap on the disc. I do this mostly with the wrist and elbow-Just like swinging a baseball bat. Once you can get all this worked into your drive, and are comfortable with it, then start pushing for big distance and it will come easier and more accurate.
Also, you probably would be best with the Valkyrie. It's a great disc for distance and control, and you can really shape a diverse array of lines with it.

DISCLAIMER: I do not have good form. This is what I find to work for me, but I am just now getting comfortable throwing about 400 feet with good accuracy. It may not work for anyone else, and improper throwing may result in injury or lost discs.

 

[Oklahyzer]

You answered your own question about the Groove, and as everyone else is saying...put down the Groove, kick it away, and never look back. As a general rule of thumb, the faster the disc, the harder to control. IMO you shouldn't even be throwing any of your drivers listed yet. I would stick with Speed 7 and below until you learn to throw them properly. Faster doesn't mean more distance, and the two longest throws officially are from the Valkyrie and Teebird. Best thing you can do for practice is to go to field and drive your putters and mids. Work on getting your putters out to 250' or better. You may notice that no matter what disc you throw they will all end up within 20' distance of each other until you learn proper form, or you may find that your putters turn and burn indicating massive OAT issues. Check out the links in the technique sticky:
http://ripsychotherapy.com/pdf/RightPecDrill.pdf
http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26165

Excellent and true advice. I went through this as a beginner learning mostly on my own, without the benefit of skilled players to help me out. I remember buying faster discs and being confused at the way discs from speed 6 to speed 11 would be within a few feet of each other on the practice field, and how some 6's and 7's would frequently outdistance 9's at the time.

If I get your initial post correctly, you're having trouble with straight fairways and release timing? If that's the case, then basic form building is the answer - with that (and a lot of focused practice...keyword: focused) will come consistency. Even if you only throw one disc at a time and chase it down for the next throw, go to a field and throw, throw, throw. Spend time focusing on repeating the same grip/grip strength, trying to maintain a consistent nose angle, body weight distribution, etc. Focus on one thing at a time, maybe starting with some obvious problems you may have, and then move on to another aspect for a session. One thing I've done that helped with gauging my ability to toss straight/where I want to release was using a junior soccer field (without nets). By positioning yourself behind one goal just a few feet to the side of the line connecting that pole and the one on the opposing goal, you can see how far off the line you're getting. Don't pay attention to where the disc actually lands in this case, just look at how the throw is starting out vs. where you intended to throw it. Actual positioning of the disc at the end of the flight can be adjusted later depending on throw and mold. It just takes a lot of practice, and you need to put some mental effort into it until you get consistency and repeatability, where it'll become second nature.

 

[GripEnemy]

though everyone has commented DO NOT USE THE GROOVE, nobody said the "snowflake of suck" comment. the one single particular groove you have may work, but good luck buying another one that is the same. what everyone was trying to say is that sure the very first groove you buy MAY work for you, but the second you lose it, or it gets beat to piss and you need a new one of the same disc, good luck. youll never find the same groove twice.

as for throwing advice, listen to everyone. DISC THE **** DOWN!!!!! dont let your ego (or anyone else you play with) get in the way of increasing skill on the course. real men dont throw drivers! [okay we do, but real men are respected for NOT throwing drivers when you dont have to]. ive been playing for almost a decade and i only justtt turned 22, but you might as well knock off my first 4-5 years of playing. i didnt have any research on discs i just threw what seemed comfortable/cool, and while it worked to a certain extent i never improved past skill level X. sure i could hold my own, but until i ACTUALLY read about individual discs, asked (and listened) to advice, and learned to temporarily disc down, i never reached skill level Y.

WERE HERE TO HELP! take some friendly advice ma'dude

 

[craftsman]

While every disc is capable of decent shots, how sensitive or consistant is another story. You may also find that after improvements, what used to be considered a good shot might feel like poop outta the hand.

As for the simple answer, aim with your shoulder, use the tee pad to help direct your shot, and stop tightening your arm too early.