how many people is too many?

[DavidSauls]

Caps - You absolutely have to have caps, even for fast-filling tournament. Maybe, especially for fast-filling tournaments. Allowing as many people in as want to sign up is a path to madness.

Players per hole - In South Carolina and vicinity, 5-per-hole is almost universal. Or, at least, setting caps that would allow fivesomes; the actual fivesomes require a tournament to be more than 80% full, and not all are.

I'd greatly prefer not playing in fivesomes, on any course, and on our course we cap at 72. But we rarely fill, so it's easy for us to say. My personal wish would be for more tournaments to do so, though I understand why they don't.

Extra temp holes work on some courses. Ghost groups just add to the slowdowns and backups.

 

[thrembo]

Anything over 4 in a group sucks, especially in a tournament format. Capping tournaments is a good idea imo. Break it down to pros on one weekend/ams on the next if you have too, to get more slots. Getting more courses in the ground would also help less developed areas, where the sport is rapidly gaining popularity. Places like Michigan have enough courses to host the biggest events and host very large groups of players.

 

[kenjiac]

Make the decision and stick to it whether it by 72 and 4somes or 90 and 5somes. 4some way preferred. Don't change from 72 to 90 to accomodate more players. You may make 18 players happy but'll piss 72 who were looking forward to 4somes. Ghost holes are dumb. If you want to go more players move to tee times.

 

[_MTL_]

Why do people add ghost cards or add holes? Why is it fair to the 90 players or 72 players or whatever who registered on time to have to play at a slower pace because of someone who registered after them?

The ONLY time I find this acceptable is in charity events where the goal is to get as many players as possible or in extreme examples (to avoidtwo pools of players you add one ghost card, etc.)

 

[kingjames1014]

We will be playing some 5-somes in Bowling Green. I'll let you know how it turns out.

 

[DavidSauls]

Why do people add ghost cards or add holes? Why is it fair to the 90 players or 72 players or whatever who registered on time to have to play at a slower pace because of someone who registered after them?

The ONLY time I find this acceptable is in charity events where the goal is to get as many players as possible or in extreme examples (to avoidtwo pools of players you add one ghost card, etc.)

Sometimes the added holes are announced in advance, so everyone is on notice. Earlewood has been doing this for a few years, due to the high demand.

 

[bhadella]

As a TD, I don't see the hassle of taking "walk-ups" potentially having to move to 5-somes or ghost cards to be worth the effort. Set your cap beforehand (whatever it is) and plan to it. IMO adhoc TD'ing never a good idea. Make a plan and execute it.

 

[Countchunkula]

Ghost Group - No, terrible idea

5-somes - This really slows things down, I would be much less likely to play a tourney with 5 per hole vs 4

Extra Holes - Depends. I've played some very good temp holes and some not so good. One of our local clubs has rubber mats and several high quality portables. Good equipment plus good layout can add up to a temp hole that adds to the course instead of detracting from it.

One semi-local tourney (Sinnisippi Open) has regularly used 6 temp holes which bring into play some parts of the park with some very good terrain. Eventually these tournament temp holes became permanent. Previously the temp holes were a big incentive to play the annual tourney.

 

[ru4por]

Anything over 4 in a group sucks, especially in a tournament format. Capping tournaments is a good idea imo. Break it down to pros on one weekend/ams on the next if you have too, to get more slots. Getting more courses in the ground would also help less developed areas, where the sport is rapidly gaining popularity. Places like Michigan have enough courses to host the biggest events and host very large groups of players.

Thrembo the wise, speaks truth. :hfive:

Played a tournament this weekend, 188 players, two 24 hole courses. Outstanding organization and few back ups. Nearly two hour wait for results though. Proof that all things running well, the volume such as this creates so much work on the TD and staff. This should be given consideration as well.

I might add this tournament had a prepay reg only, capped and no wait list whatsoever. Very good idea, as well.

 

[_MTL_]

Sometimes the added holes are announced in advance, so everyone is on notice. Earlewood has been doing this for a few years, due to the high demand.

I still don't like it, however, this is far better than adding them after a cap is announced.

 

[Pwingles]

As a player, i dislike long waits between holes, and slooooowww play in general. But aside from grueling weather conditions combined with either of those, i usually get over it.

If i were running the event, it would depend on a couple things as far as 5 somes and adding holes/people.

Basically, if the TD is doing payout as well, i would never expect them to cap it at 72/90, for better or worse, i just wouldnt expect it. Kudos to those that do.

Weather. July, august, no way am i adding 2-3 temp holes and taking 15 more entries. Too much of a hassle

 

[CaptainAnhyzer]

We switched from 90 to 72 last year.
It has improved the overall flow at all the courses and we've gotten positive feedback from the players. Allows for a slightly longer lunch and we get awards done before dark.

Never, EVER, increase the number once pre reg has started(and/or filled). You have 72 players that paid for that size field and you will piss off a good number of them for changing up the field size.

A good TD makes the rules and STICKS to them.

 

[CaptainAnhyzer]

Another key timing issue is how long it takes between the first and last card returning from round 1.
If there are a couple significant backups, it can stretch out the lunch break for those that finish first. Then you have to short the break for those that finished last.

 

[PhillyMatt]

I think 5 is too much for a tournament group. Casual NP, yournies should cap at 4 to keep it moving.

 

[DavidSauls]

I still don't like it, however, this is far better than adding them after a cap is announced.

Absolutely.

IMO adhoc TD'ing never a good idea. Make a plan and execute it.

Always.

 

[Three Putt]

As a player, i dislike long waits between holes, and slooooowww play in general. But aside from grueling weather conditions combined with either of those, i usually get over it.

If i were running the event, it would depend on a couple things as far as 5 somes and adding holes/people.

Basically, if the TD is doing payout as well, i would never expect them to cap it at 72/90, for better or worse, i just wouldnt expect it. Kudos to those that do.

Weather. July, august, no way am i adding 2-3 temp holes and taking 15 more entries. Too much of a hassle

You really have to balance that issue of "how many people do I piss off if I cap an event at 72" VS "how many people do I piss off if the event finishes after 7:00 at night." Either way you piss somebody off.

 

[Casual Squishy]

What's wrong with 126 players on 24 holes?? We'll we played from 8:00am til 8:00pm. Ate dinner, fell asleep and did it again.

All at a course where everyone camps or stays in cabins at the course.

Not my idea of fun. I came to hang out and see friends. Not play golf for 11 hours.

You're talking about bath though Chris, which is kind of an extreme example when one out of 6 players were coming in with scores over 100 in the final round last year. And no short tees for rec players. On the other hand the ironwood you're doing this year never seemed to run long with 5s the last couple years. It may very well run long this year even with 4s since you've got a couple rec players 500ish rated but at least they can play the short tees and it's easier to find discs at moraine then in hell I mean bath. I think it depends more on the course then anything else. With 35+ on the waiting list maybe the ironwood could expand to 2 courses next year ala pfdo, although it would be unfair to change it for this year for the players that have already signed up and planned for it, even Though there are a ton of us dying to get in.
Most of the players for bath just don't seem to care as they mostly know what they're in for. I skipped it this year because it just kicks my old ass too much.

 

[Three Putt]

You're talking about bath though Chris, which is kind of an extreme example when one out of 6 players were coming in with scores over 100 in the final round last year. And no short tees for rec players. On the other hand the ironwood you're doing this year never seemed to run long with 5s the last couple years. It may very well run long this year even with 4s since you've got a couple rec players 500ish rated but at least they can play the short tees and it's easier to find discs at moraine then in hell I mean bath. I think it depends more on the course then anything else.

This is a legitimate issue. I like to play at Ozark Mountain but I avoid events out there like the plague. I can take a 110 on Ozark Mountain easy and back up the whole field while I take 110 throws and look for my disc in the shule. I can play out there in a rec round, take a 110 and have a perfectly nice time. The pressure of having cards three deep pile up on the tee behind me takes the fun out of events. I'm just not the right guy to be playing in an event out there.

 

[RippinDs]

5-somes seem pretty common in tournaments in my area. Doesn't really bother me for the most part because it is nice to see a lot of people who want to play tournaments in your local area. What really bothers me is when the tournament exceeds the cap they place and have ghost groups. I think if you have the demand to exceed your cap limit as a TD, that's great and speaks to the kind of quality of events you run. However, if you are going to exceed it, the least you can do is to add temp holes, to avoid ghost groups, and not seriously hinder speed of play. When I go to a tournament, I expect it to be an all day thing. With all of this being said, I definitely prefer 4-somes. In the future with disc golf popularity growing, and the numbers of tournament players growing, we are going to see tournaments start to fill up faster. I would say the average TD wants to accommodate as many players as possible. So I think we will see more split pro/am split events in the future. Pros on one day and ams on another.

 

[Royal Hill]

I have held some of the following philosophy:

I think it is wise for an area (in the long run) if the supply just trails a little behind demand.

It feeds a good event culture when that supply is less than demand. ..just a little. Event directors are then more likely able to feel covered for attendance risk, better able to plan, and concentrate on service oriented details of the event. Less begging to fill, less bribing to fill, less scrambling.

An appearance of demand, or supply shortage helps perpetuate attendance event over event. Want to have a hopping restaurant? Get your friends to stand outside the restaurant from time to time to make people think there is a wait to get in. People like getting whats hard to obtain (or at least has an essence of demand - real or not)

As demand warrants, add/encourage more events in the area. More varied events to take some of the pressure off. With the added support of demand - a director or club can try novel formats or new things and be innovative.

I personally would encourage event directors to migrate to online sign up services - especially as the local event culture is producing "full" events.
Why? The inventory (entries) is all in one place, first come, first serve, collected, organized, verified. Many have the ticker that show how many left.
When it sells out - celebrate it! Share the news... blast it on facebook! you are already building steam for the next time, or the next event. A good event director then has a nearby event in mind to refer players to that ask after its too late, even if its a little drive.

With online sign up services:
When they are gone, they are gone. Too bad. They likely ticked down one at a time. I know in our area, if you watch - even the events that fill - usually are dropping availability 2-3 spots per day during the sign up period, not in massive batches like you might think. Weekend, weekday - same rate... strange.

Then they're gone. Maybe next year. Less face to face awkward conversations where an event director caves... and lets in another over his previous cap.

Stick to the number, stick to the plan, execute well.