Iron Hill. Please Read Before You Play

[paulw]

Leave early! You're looking at 7 hours in the car (that's not counting any time for traffic), 2 hours for a regular round at Seneca, about the same if you're playing the Green Monster lay out at P-tap, and then the same again at Iron Hill. Maybe schedule the trip for the solstice so you don't have to race sunset.

Solid day of golf, you're bagging the top two MD courses and the top DE course in one day.

Could end at Stafford Woods in NJ . . . New Jersey's top-rated course.

Could have a Warwick-Stafford (Saturday) and a IH-Seneca (Sunday) "4 tops" tournament . . . .

There'd be all kinds of ego male body-part references going on at that one.

Or maybe Hawk Hollow-Seneca (Saturday), IH-Stafford (Sunday) . .. just saying.

 

[sidewinder22]

I actually understand the bad reviews more than the average ones.

Yep, you either love it or hate it. I don't understand how it can be in the middle.

 

[reposado]

Yep, you either love it or hate it. I don't understand how it can be in the middle.

maybe they hated it but temper their criticism to avoid threads being created to call them out

 

[sidewinder22]

maybe they hated it but temper their criticism to avoid threads being created to call them out

That's not a good review then. It's pretty rare I ever thumb down reviews, I can probably count them all on my fingers.

 

[De Hermit]

Jimi,
Has anything been attempted at IH to remedy the rampant spiderweb incursion?

 

[reposado]

That's not a good review then. It's pretty rare I ever thumb down reviews, I can probably count them all on my fingers.

yeah it would be a bad review. those do happen. im not shy about a thumbs down. id say i give up and down in equal amounts, and ive done tons of both

 

[optidiscic]

maybe they hated it but temper their criticism to avoid threads being created to call them out

Anyone who knows anything about dg in the northeast is well aware of what Iron Hill is meant to be.....I also don't think Jimi or myself ever complained about ratings...personally Iron Hill is too much course for me but I strive for pars and occasionally get a bird which feels like an Eagle

Nobody in the northeast scene really cares about ratings on dgcr...most serious players will play Nockamixon and Iron Hill over Tyler for example

as a designer I do not like reviews that completely miss the point of the design

Iron Hill was meant to be a permt gold level tourney course.....that means its not really meant for casual play

It does seem to be endless straight 350 throws off the tees......if you know anything about gold course woods design you would realize that on long gold wooded holes any designed flicks, anhyzers,hyzers immediately of the tee will result in noobs,chuckers, creative players taking shortcuts through the woods and suddenly your 600 ft horseshoe or dogleg is a 250 ft roc shot.....these are all the genius of the design at Iron Hill....there is no sort cut from tee to basket and every level of player red to gold has a plethora of shot choices to use after the tee shot since you never land in the same spot twice or 3rd or 4th shot...I've thrown the same disc off the tee but used every disc and shot in abundance at Iron Hill

Basically my point is thatratings mean very little but not understanding design and why things are created in the manner they were is just ignorance and as a designer Ive heard these misunderstandings turn into myths which become dogma to many and it does get a little bit tough to swallow listening to people complain about an intentional design element as if its bad design.

For the record, some of the top players can hit those fairways and the course has a different look in their eyes

 

[optidiscic]

Jimi,
Has anything been attempted at IH to remedy the rampant spiderweb incursion?

hahaha spiders in the woods in the spring.....whoever heard of such a thing

 

[davetherocketguy]

as a designer I do not like reviews that completely miss the point of the design

What courses have you designed?

opcorn:

 

[B3NDER]

Woosah.

 

[emiller3]

It does seem to be endless straight 350 throws off the tees......if you know anything about gold course woods design you would realize that on long gold wooded holes any designed flicks, anhyzers,hyzers immediately of the tee will result in noobs,chuckers, creative players taking shortcuts through the woods and suddenly your 600 ft horseshoe or dogleg is a 250 ft roc shot...

You can definitely design gold level wooded holes that require a variety of shot shaping skills off the tee, even if they are relatively straight fairways. Do you mean straight fairways or straight throws? Repeated straight throws off the tee would get boring or frustrating, depending on how you're throwing.

My home course has relatively straight fairways, but only a couple require long, straight drives. On the other holes you're driving flex shots, turnovers, straight with fade, flicks, hyzers, anhyzers, etc.

 

[New013]

thats a very ambitious day New
seneca is 27 holes and Iron Hill feels like 27 lol

Leave early! You're looking at 7 hours in the car (that's not counting any time for traffic), 2 hours for a regular round at Seneca, about the same if you're playing the Green Monster lay out at P-tap, and then the same again at Iron Hill. Maybe schedule the trip for the solstice so you don't have to race sunset.

Solid day of golf, you're bagging the top two MD courses and the top DE course in one day.

well the plan was to leave before the sun comes up and we'll have over 14 hours of sunlight so i figure we should be okay. im not really concerned about how much golf is involved i've done some pretty crazy days before and made it out alive.

 

[jimimc]

Lets see. Most holes can be played 275- 300' straight or

Hole 1 300' then a 90 degree turn right I've seen 500' shots on this hole
Hole 2 370' righty hyzer
Hole 3 325- 375 straight with a 30 degree right turn roller anyone
Hole 4 400' lefty hyzer once again roller
Hole 5 300' slightly up hill safe slight righty finish, best shot a lefty S
Hole 6 330' righty skip shot
hole 7 360' downhill lefty hyzer or a righty beat Roc
Hole 8 300'- 400' up hill righty hyzer or a lefty S
Hole 9 big lefty hyzer or 300' Roc shot
Hole 10 250' righty Hyzer or balls out lefty turnover
Hole 11 As long and as straight as you can throw
hole 12 300' righty skip
Hole 13 360' down hill righty hyzer
Hole 14 370' dead straight ask Nikko get a 1 or 6
Hole 15 uphill choice of lefty or righty hyzer as far as you can throw
Hole 16 slightly uphill as far as you can straight if you want better off finishing right
Hole 17 righty Hyzer flip, lefty S or putter
Hole 18 300 straight or a 350- 425 righty skip lefty roller

 

[optidiscic]

Lets see. Most holes can be played 275- 300' straight or

Hole 1 300' then a 90 degree turn right I've seen 500' shots on this hole
Hole 2 370' righty hyzer
Hole 3 325- 375 straight with a 30 degree right turn roller anyone
Hole 4 400' lefty hyzer once again roller
Hole 5 300' slightly up hill safe slight righty finish, best shot a lefty S
Hole 6 330' righty skip shot
hole 7 360' downhill lefty hyzer or a righty beat Roc
Hole 8 300'- 400' up hill righty hyzer or a lefty S
Hole 9 big lefty hyzer or 300' Roc shot
Hole 10 250' righty Hyzer or balls out lefty turnover
Hole 11 As long and as straight as you can throw
hole 12 300' righty skip
Hole 13 360' down hill righty hyzer
Hole 14 370' dead straight ask Nikko get a 1 or 6
Hole 15 uphill choice of lefty or righty hyzer as far as you can throw
Hole 16 slightly uphill as far as you can straight if you want better off finishing right
Hole 17 righty Hyzer flip, lefty S or putter
Hole 18 300 straight or a 350- 425 righty skip lefty roller

yep
I think most players get long wooded straight fairway disease around hole 11 lol
But again like I mentioned Iron Hill wasnt designed for most players

I will add that IMO hole 6 is the best gold woods hole I have played and that includes Charlotte, all of PA, Idlewild, NY, Maple Hill etc

 

[optidiscic]

Lets see. Most holes can be played 275- 300' straight or

Hole 1 300' then a 90 degree turn right I've seen 500' shots on this hole
Hole 2 370' righty hyzer
Hole 3 325- 375 straight with a 30 degree right turn roller anyone
Hole 4 400' lefty hyzer once again roller
Hole 5 300' slightly up hill safe slight righty finish, best shot a lefty S
Hole 6 330' righty skip shot
hole 7 360' downhill lefty hyzer or a righty beat Roc
Hole 8 300'- 400' up hill righty hyzer or a lefty S
Hole 9 big lefty hyzer or 300' Roc shot
Hole 10 250' righty Hyzer or balls out lefty turnover
Hole 11 As long and as straight as you can throw
hole 12 300' righty skip
Hole 13 360' down hill righty hyzer
Hole 14 370' dead straight ask Nikko get a 1 or 6
Hole 15 uphill choice of lefty or righty hyzer as far as you can throw
Hole 16 slightly uphill as far as you can straight if you want better off finishing right
Hole 17 righty Hyzer flip, lefty S or putter
Hole 18 300 straight or a 350- 425 righty skip lefty roller

The thing about these distances are they are distances to the ideal landing zones traveling via ample hallway tunnels so the D is relative not open field D

 

[optidiscic]

You can definitely design gold level wooded holes that require a variety of shot shaping skills off the tee, even if they are relatively straight fairways. Do you mean straight fairways or straight throws? Repeated straight throws off the tee would get boring or frustrating, depending on how you're throwing.

My home course has relatively straight fairways, but only a couple require long, straight drives. On the other holes you're driving flex shots, turnovers, straight with fade, flicks, hyzers, anhyzers, etc.

no you cant always
types of trees and begetation as well as limited growing season do play a role

 

[ohtobediscing]

If you want chuckers to play the short tees, make them attractive to chuckers. If you don't want chuckers on your course don't build it on public land. It's unreasonable and unfair to use public land then tell large segments of the population that the land isn't intended for them to use, whether or not you think it's appropriate for them to be there.

Yep. Don't see how the offended parties aren't getting this point.

I do defend Iron Hill with a bit of a passion. I don't think it's perfect though. I am proud of the design, the fact that no matter how many times you play it your 2nd and 3rd shots are always different. I'm proud of the Gold tee pads and signs, nice job by the county paying for them. I'm proud of the 2 baskets on every hole, that I paid for out of pocket. It's the complaints of no water to drink when people didn't look or ask where it is. It's complaining about no bathrooms when there are 3 very well maintained Port a Pots there. It's calling the course repetitive, when I've seen the best players in the world throw multiple different drives and shoot ridiculous scores consistently. One person will complain it's boring while another will complain it's hard to hit the same exact spot to throw your second shot from. If some one thinks the course is average, that's cool. I actually understand the bad reviews more than the average ones. Everyone is welcome to their opinion and I also with open arms welcome anyone to play what ever layout they choose, I just want them to know what to expect.

Ah, so we ARE talking about reviews and ratings after all. :\

Blue Lake in Portland is your ideal course then. Feldberg-designed gold level, and very few play it because of its length.Certainly not chuckers.
Problem solved.

 

[ohtobediscing]

And [in my opinion, of course] the OP seems to be saying "Stay off Iron Hill [its MY course] if you're here to have fun. Its supposed to make you cry/curse the day you were born."
Kinda egocentric, don't you think?

 

[optidiscic]

why all this hate?

Iron Hill is predominantly played by serious dgers

The only problem is when someone criticizes the design and the course instead of their own ability

Ratings mean very little in the northeast

Iron Hill par 72 means a touring pro would be content to get a 72

Few courses can make that claim

People are entitled to their opinions

Designers are also entitled to educate without being judged sheeeze

 

[ohtobediscing]

^^^You know opti, usually you seem pretty rational, but there's a lot of contradictions here.