biscoe
* Ace Member *
traffic northbound in northern virginia is gonna suck hard from 7-10 or so. going to suck slightly less other times.
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Iron Hill. Please Read Before You Play
- Thread starter jimimc
- Start date
traffic northbound in northern virginia is gonna suck hard from 7-10 or so. going to suck slightly less other times.
BirdieMachine
Michael Moore Fan Club President
100% agree with you there. If a course has to have either it's a negative in my book. I think both are gimmicky and we'd be better off with as little of them as possible. If your course isn't hard enough without ropes then it's just a poorly designed course or piece of land and bad place for a top tier level tourney.
Might as well add some windmills and clown mouths.
paulw
Eagle Member
OB can not only make a blah basket great -- it's waayyy underused in disc golf.
I've had this discussion dozens of times with Jimi and of course he's always right because he's in charge -- but some of the best baskets I've ever played have OB ropes/roads/high grass -- it just adds to the challenge. Jimi sees it as gimmicky and blasphemous to put any OB on any basket where there's a tree in the same county - - "THAT'S JUST NOT FAIR!!" Whatever -- most of the trees that I've hit were there prior to me hitting them -- just saying.
I play in very few tournaments, but I must say it was painfully funny to watch Jimi as he "McIlvained" a basket at Rutgers when it was set up in it's tourney lay-out. Took a seven on like a 250' basket with like four circles or something. Took it like a master course designer though -- bitching and whining the entire time!!
Oh -- and don't forget there's an OB dog-park at IH and an OB road behind four's basket too . . . . . . . just saying'.
Recently played in a tournament at Tyler where the creeks are OB when there's water in them, threw my upshot into the last tree before the basket, rolled down the trunk and about 30' down the dry part of the creek bed into a 6'ish round pool OB. Turned a bad 5 into a really lousy 7. Unfair? Nope. Unlucky -- maybe, but it was definitely a bad throw. I could have (should have -- it was one of those shots that you wonder who shot your arm with the stupid juice just after letting it go. Your mind says "just miss that tree", and your arm says "TREE -- GOT IT") easily thrown left or right of this tree and taken a sure six -- but I didn't.
An Iron Hill OB question I have Jimi is do you really think anyone plays 3 differently because there's no OB at the bottom of the basket side ditch? I doubt it. I know I don't, but that may be because I'm usually throwing my third to the basket and not my second like the grown-ups do.
I've had this discussion dozens of times with Jimi and of course he's always right because he's in charge -- but some of the best baskets I've ever played have OB ropes/roads/high grass -- it just adds to the challenge. Jimi sees it as gimmicky and blasphemous to put any OB on any basket where there's a tree in the same county - - "THAT'S JUST NOT FAIR!!" Whatever -- most of the trees that I've hit were there prior to me hitting them -- just saying.
I play in very few tournaments, but I must say it was painfully funny to watch Jimi as he "McIlvained" a basket at Rutgers when it was set up in it's tourney lay-out. Took a seven on like a 250' basket with like four circles or something. Took it like a master course designer though -- bitching and whining the entire time!!
Oh -- and don't forget there's an OB dog-park at IH and an OB road behind four's basket too . . . .
. . . just saying'. Recently played in a tournament at Tyler where the creeks are OB when there's water in them, threw my upshot into the last tree before the basket, rolled down the trunk and about 30' down the dry part of the creek bed into a 6'ish round pool OB. Turned a bad 5 into a really lousy 7. Unfair? Nope. Unlucky -- maybe, but it was definitely a bad throw. I could have (should have -- it was one of those shots that you wonder who shot your arm with the stupid juice just after letting it go. Your mind says "just miss that tree", and your arm says "TREE -- GOT IT") easily thrown left or right of this tree and taken a sure six -- but I didn't.
An Iron Hill OB question I have Jimi is do you really think anyone plays 3 differently because there's no OB at the bottom of the basket side ditch? I doubt it. I know I don't, but that may be because I'm usually throwing my third to the basket and not my second like the grown-ups do.
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2011
- Messages
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1day- R.L. Smith, Web, Nevin Long and Brackett's comes to mind. :hfive:
I'm in on this trip and last time I went with these boys I bagged 14 courses in 5 days. that included multiple rounds at the Blockhouse and Hawk Hollow.
It was a hell of a trip
OB can not only make a blah basket great -- it's waayyy underused in disc golf.
I've had this discussion dozens of times with Jimi and of course he's always right because he's in charge -- but some of the best baskets I've ever played have OB ropes/roads/high grass -- it just adds to the challenge. Jimi sees it as gimmicky and blasphemous to put any OB on any basket where there's a tree in the same county - - "THAT'S JUST NOT FAIR!!" Whatever -- most of the trees that I've hit were there prior to me hitting them -- just saying.
I play in very few tournaments, but I must say it was painfully funny to watch Jimi as he "McIlvained" a basket at Rutgers when it was set up in it's tourney lay-out. Took a seven on like a 250' basket with like four circles or something. Took it like a master course designer though -- bitching and whining the entire time!!
Oh -- and don't forget there's an OB dog-park at IH and an OB road behind four's basket too . . . .
Recently played in a tournament at Tyler where the creeks are OB when there's water in them, threw my upshot into the last tree before the basket, rolled down the trunk and about 30' down the dry part of the creek bed into a 6'ish round pool OB. Turned a bad 5 into a really lousy 7. Unfair? Nope. Unlucky -- maybe, but it was definitely a bad throw. I could have (should have -- it was one of those shots that you wonder who shot your arm with the stupid juice just after letting it go. Your mind says "just miss that tree", and your arm says "TREE -- GOT IT") easily thrown left or right of this tree and taken a sure six -- but I didn't.
An Iron Hill OB question I have Jimi is do you really think anyone plays 3 differently because there's no OB at the bottom of the basket side ditch? I doubt it. I know I don't, but that may be because I'm usually throwing my third to the basket and not my second like the grown-ups do.
that oob was dumb because it was penalizing bad luck twice
a rollaway to the dry creekbed is punishing enough as u have an upbank jail look at the basket so essentially ending up down there is punishment enough
removing that oob was a genius design move
What courses have you designed?
Opti...you gonna answer my question or what? Or are you full of crap?
paulw
Eagle Member
All the shots that wind up in that creek bed are bad shots. Don't throw it in the creek bed.
Just because you're wrong and Jimi's wrong doesn't mean you're right.
In real life Jimi's right -- here, you're both wrong.
I love on the Masters Cup thread with the whining about getting Dela'd when your drive from 550' away and 70' up lands 2' from the basket and skips and rolls out of bounds . . !!!??? What the? You threw it from on top of a hill and landed it 2' from the target and you expected it to do what -- STOP? Heck I'm lucky enough to have thrown a half dozen throws from the top of the world -- I of course was trying to make a one and hucked three or four of them into the parking lot across the street, but at no time did I think I got ripped off. It's also great when someone hits the front of the basket on the side of a cliff and are SHOCKED the disc stands up and rolls away -- none of the putts that the basket caught rolled down the hill . .. odd, maybe if you hadn't thrown a BAD shot it wouldn'tve ended up down the hill. Your lay-up from 50' landed on a root by the basket and rolled 200' down a gulley -- OH THE HUMANITY!! I know -- it's a tough break but you didn't have to hit the root -- you could've thrown the disc 30' and made a 20'er. You could've thrown something that wouldn't have rolled -- try one of those gumby things, I can't picture one of them rolling -- damn things can barely hold their shape. Anyway you cut it you threw the disc, either take responsibility or whine whine whine. I know I do -- but it doesn't mean I don't love it!! I cringe when anyone goes out -- I want every disc that I'm watching to go in the basket -- doesn't happen everytime, but that's what I'm rooting for -- except for Wade's, but that's my own personal problem.
Please -- of the 30 times I've been in that gulley they were 30 bad throws, and on 5 or 6 of them I made the putt. I make that putt way more than most -- I think it's because I'm pissed I'm at the bottom of that stupid gulley and I'm a good mad putter. An OB penalty would've made sense. I'd prefer an OB string along the tree line so I can just take my penalty and not have to scrounge around in the bottom of that dumb-ass ditch fumbling for a stance and a line between all those annoying 3" dia trees. It's wet and dirty down there -- let me make my putt and then pick up my stupid throw on the way to the next tee -- saves time and me down in that ditch getting all wet and grimy.
Again -- OB stinks when you're in it but it's fair because everyone's that in it is in it.
Just because you're wrong and Jimi's wrong doesn't mean you're right.
In real life Jimi's right -- here, you're both wrong.
I love on the Masters Cup thread with the whining about getting Dela'd when your drive from 550' away and 70' up lands 2' from the basket and skips and rolls out of bounds . . !!!??? What the? You threw it from on top of a hill and landed it 2' from the target and you expected it to do what -- STOP? Heck I'm lucky enough to have thrown a half dozen throws from the top of the world -- I of course was trying to make a one and hucked three or four of them into the parking lot across the street, but at no time did I think I got ripped off. It's also great when someone hits the front of the basket on the side of a cliff and are SHOCKED the disc stands up and rolls away -- none of the putts that the basket caught rolled down the hill . .. odd, maybe if you hadn't thrown a BAD shot it wouldn'tve ended up down the hill. Your lay-up from 50' landed on a root by the basket and rolled 200' down a gulley -- OH THE HUMANITY!! I know -- it's a tough break but you didn't have to hit the root -- you could've thrown the disc 30' and made a 20'er. You could've thrown something that wouldn't have rolled -- try one of those gumby things, I can't picture one of them rolling -- damn things can barely hold their shape. Anyway you cut it you threw the disc, either take responsibility or whine whine whine. I know I do -- but it doesn't mean I don't love it!! I cringe when anyone goes out -- I want every disc that I'm watching to go in the basket -- doesn't happen everytime, but that's what I'm rooting for -- except for Wade's, but that's my own personal problem.
Please -- of the 30 times I've been in that gulley they were 30 bad throws, and on 5 or 6 of them I made the putt. I make that putt way more than most -- I think it's because I'm pissed I'm at the bottom of that stupid gulley and I'm a good mad putter. An OB penalty would've made sense. I'd prefer an OB string along the tree line so I can just take my penalty and not have to scrounge around in the bottom of that dumb-ass ditch fumbling for a stance and a line between all those annoying 3" dia trees. It's wet and dirty down there -- let me make my putt and then pick up my stupid throw on the way to the next tee -- saves time and me down in that ditch getting all wet and grimy.
Again -- OB stinks when you're in it but it's fair because everyone's that in it is in it.
Renaissance Hole 6 (I think) comes to mind. I shanked my drive and it went down down down the wooded slope to the left....It took me awhile to get down there and find my disc...looking back up the hill to the basket I saw a maze of spindly sapling trees with virtually no line to the fairway nor the basket....as I stood in that tiny ditchy bone dry gulley I reached for my disc figuring I'd hack it back and maybe take a 4....then to my horror I saw it....a little yellow string....I was oob....who the hell would think to put a 3 ft wide base of the hill gulley through the woods hillside and far far away from the pin oob line down there...it was almost a pain in the ass to get down there let alone place oob string there....Stan McDaniel you are a sick sick man.....I tomahwked and had it roll back to oob again...it was really crazy and really evil and honestly the most ridiculous oob Ive ever encountered....the rest of my round anytime I was off the fairway or had a roll away or landed in a bush I nervously was looking for that damn yellow string
My point is you don't encounter garbage like that at Iron Hill...the 2 instances of oob are permt and make sense and THE ONLY person you can blame is yourself for making a errant throw or bad decision
my bowels are pretty regular thank you
I'd indulge you but then the hacker troll in you would likely insult my labors of love and you'd insult me more and then I'd likely get banned and then what would Mashnut do when he is looking for someone to bash for no reason?
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You mean the OB creek on hole 7 with a decent bit of water that divides the hole from other holes on the course? You have to throw a poor drive to land in a spot where you have no options from that creek.
In my opinion.........
my bowels are pretty regular thank you
I'd indulge you but then the hacker troll in you would likely insult my labors of love and you'd insult me more and then I'd likely get banned and then what would Mashnut do when he is looking for someone to bash for no reason?
I see no one else standing up for you. This is the third time I've asked a similar question and you've ignored it and now when you finally do address my question I get called a troll. Brilliant.
Thank you for confirming what I have suspected all along.
Disc Fiend
* Ace Member *
^I'll stand up for him. He has designed some courses around here, and they are awesome. Now back to your regularly scheduled program.
Seconded.
paulw
Eagle Member
"that oob was dumb because it was penalizing bad luck twice"
You're making my argument -- except the part where you contend that it's "bad luck" . . .?
None of the throws that end up at the bottom of a ditch are good. They're all bad. Your approach hits the ditch side of the 3" dia tree while the other three guys on the card hit the non-ditch side of the tree and are parked. Lucky or were they better throws? If a squirrel runs in front of your disc after you threw it and the disc hits the squirrel and stands up and bounces OB (<-- please, if you take nothing from this post, I plead you see and accept the correct way to type "out of bounds". It's not, nor has it ever been "oob") THAT would be unlucky. You'd still be stuck with the penalty, but then you have room to whine about luck.
Take care.
lazy cake
Bogey Member
Let's name names. I personally appreciate knowing who designed all the courses I've played, it adds context to the situation.
Careful, or you'll be labeled a troll for asking such questions.
chrishysell
* Ace Member *
my favorite review from my last course was that the holes were just out of reach of their max throw so they needed to be shorter.
That's not a review, that's a critique of the thrower's ability and has no business being part of a review.
luck either good or bad will always be part of our game as much as bad shots that we all make.... my contention on the holes mentioned is that both bad/unlucky shots leave the player with a very punitive lie (where landing out of bounds can actually happen again due to sappling hit and steep bank) making the SAVE from that spot imo deserves just that saving a stroke....I know a lot about out of bounds and Ive lost friends over all the out of bounds Ive forced people to deal with lol ...I try to use it to add something to a hole. Placing it at the base of a dry gulley that doesnt really change how people play the hole is played and ultimately adds a stroke at the same that the lie is already punishing and likely adding 2 strokes instead of just one seems excessive especially on a course where strokes will add up quickly for bad/unlucky lies
I played Iron Hill when that gulley was marked with yellow rope and rolling down there and taking a 7 there really sucked trust me lol
You must realize also that JMC goal of no mandos and minimal OB he takes serious and I will attest as a course designer marking OB is a pita and becomes a constant confusing work project that players will argue about instead of just playing the lie and dealing with it....).at Iron Hill there are no mandos or oob (haha i had to do it) to argue about and its basically always in gold tourney setup eternally
We will disagree and thats fine but understanfing the designers motive has helped me to appreciate Iron Hill
btw I know and respect Jimi but I wouldnt say we are friends but hes always been friendly to me. Fred Salaz was pretty condenscending in an email to me when I gave Idlewild a 4.5 just because I didnt 5 his course and made some minor criticisms.
