[Innova] McPro Roc3's

[hugheshilton]

It's time for him to pass the torch anyway. How long has it been since he has won anything relevant against a strong field?

Uh, how about last year? Climo has won the world championships in Master's division the last 3 out of 4 years and that is a pretty strong field. It's not MPO, but it's several world titles. Also, Wiggins wasn't a fluke. Innova gives a sig disc to any sponsored player who beats the world distance record with an Innova disc as well. Christian Sandstrom had his sig on the Valkyrie for years before his record was broken. I think it's correct that Innova doesn't give sig discs for anything other than world titles though. Yeti Aviars are because Jay has won the world putting championships 5 times. Juliana Korver won several WPO world championships and got JK Aviars. I'm not sure why Valarie Jenkins doesn't have any production sig discs though given that she won several world championships. Seems like she deserves something more than Juliana Korver at this point given that JK hasn't been competing for years. There's probably politics involved though; there usually is.

 

[IllustratorVir]

Uh, how about last year? Climo has won the world championships in Master's division the last 3 out of 4 years and that is a pretty strong field. It's not MPO, but it's several world titles.

I get it, but my point is if Innova is looking for a signature disc to hand out to a MPO World Champion, I can see him getting the bump from a mold.

 

[tbird888]

McBeth and his four worlds in a row couldn't do it. Why do you think anyone else can? You seem to be dismissing The Champ's accomplishment like a Worlds (or four) today holds more value than twelve.

 

[IllustratorVir]

McBeth and his four worlds in a row couldn't do it. Why do you think anyone else can? You seem to be dismissing The Champ's accomplishment like a Worlds (or four) today holds more value than twelve.

I'm not dismissing anything, just stating that in time, I can see signature discs changing. Shessh. Climo fanbois are mean.

 

[Pbmercil]

I get it, but my point is if Innova is looking for a signature disc to hand out to a MPO World Champion, I can see him getting the bump from a mold.

That's kinda like Nike bumping Jordan. Its a sunk cost of having one of the best of the of all time repping your brand. It also sets a bad precident to perspective players considering signing with innova. The fact that innova doesn't profide significant financial support to the bulk of their touring players is well documented. The big draw is that if you win a world championship with them your pretty much set from royalties for a very long time. That is a big draw to them, and it's probably a bad idea to tweak that model.

 

[hugheshilton]

I'm not dismissing anything, just stating that in time, I can see signature discs changing. Shessh. Climo fanbois are mean.

We're not being mean, just pointing out facts. And actually I'm not that big of a Climo fan tbh. I think if any of the top half dozen MPO players playing today had been around 20 years ago, Climo probably wouldn't have 12 MPO titles (probably a few but not 12). But that's just speculation. The fact is that Climo has won 12 MPO titles and 3 master's titles. He's one of the all time greats in disc golf and taking away his sig discs would be controversial since he still has a lot of fans out there. Not that Innova couldn't and wouldn't do it; they did take the Destroyer from Avery (eventually), but I don't think it's something they would approach lightly. As long as Climo is still playing and winning world titles, even in Master's division, I suspect he will probably keep his sig discs.

 

[IllustratorVir]

We're not being mean, just pointing out facts. And actually I'm not that big of a Climo fan tbh. I think if any of the top half dozen MPO players playing today had been around 20 years ago, Climo probably wouldn't have 12 MPO titles (probably a few but not 12). But that's just speculation. The fact is that Climo has won 12 MPO titles and 3 master's titles. He's one of the all time greats in disc golf and taking away his sig discs would be controversial since he still has a lot of fans out there. Not that Innova couldn't and wouldn't do it; they did take the Destroyer from Avery (eventually), but I don't think it's something they would approach lightly. As long as Climo is still playing and winning world titles, even in Master's division, I suspect he will probably keep his sig discs.

Right, and that is my point. There is a reason he doesn't play open anymore, he would lose. Put him on the same card as Paul, Simon and the boys and he would get beat. Not to downplay his ability, but its a testament to how good the field has gotten around him. He will probably always have a signature disc somewhere. His run was unprecedented and probably won't happen again.

 

[Anon]

they did take the Destroyer from Avery (eventually),

Remember. This was unprecedented.

Almost everybody said that Innova would NEVER take food off of Avery's table. Especially with his kid just being born.

Removing the Champ from one of his signature discs seems like one of those "never happen" moments but with the way Paul is dominating... crazier things have happened.

 

[hugheshilton]

That's kinda like Nike bumping Jordan. Its a sunk cost of having one of the best of the of all time repping your brand. It also sets a bad precident to perspective players considering signing with innova. The fact that innova doesn't profide significant financial support to the bulk of their touring players is well documented. The big draw is that if you win a world championship with them your pretty much set from royalties for a very long time. That is a big draw to them, and it's probably a bad idea to tweak that model.

That's actually a pretty good point. It's a bit like prize money in the British royal navy during the age of sail. Most sailors didn't see many actions and only ever got their wages (very little for the amount of back breaking labor and awful conditions aboard ship). But there was always that chance they would be in an action where they took a rich enemy ship and ended up set for life or distinguished themselves enough to get promoted. There were plenty of politicians at the time saying that the British government should do away with the system and keep the money from captured ships for itself, but it was a huge motivational factor to the British Navy it survived for a very long time.

 

[Pbmercil]

Right, and that is my point. There is a reason he doesn't play open anymore, he would lose. Put him on the same card as Paul, Simon and the boys and he would get beat. Not to downplay his ability, but its a testament to how good the field has gotten around him. He will probably always have a signature disc somewhere. His run was unprecedented and probably won't happen again.

Keep in mind KC is still the 14th heighest rated player in the world. He might not be at the pinnacle of the game but he is still one of the best players in the world

 

[IllustratorVir]

That's kinda like Nike bumping Jordan. Its a sunk cost of having one of the best of the of all time repping your brand. It also sets a bad precident to perspective players considering signing with innova. The fact that innova doesn't profide significant financial support to the bulk of their touring players is well documented. The big draw is that if you win a world championship with them your pretty much set from royalties for a very long time. That is a big draw to them, and it's probably a bad idea to tweak that model.

That might be true. But if Innova thinks for even a moment that they can sell more firebirds by putting McBeth's name on it, I think they would do it. Like I said, I think Kenny will always have some sort of signature disc, at least for the foreseeable future.

 

[IllustratorVir]

Keep in mind KC is still the 14th heighest rated player in the world. He might not be at the pinnacle of the game but he is still one of the best players in the world

Didn't say he wasn't.

 

[hugheshilton]

There is a big difference between Avery and Climo. Avery won a world title in 2009 and hasn't won a single NT event or major since then (1 A Tier win in 2010 and a few B/C wins is all he's gotten, I checked on the PDGA site). Also, Avery retired from full time playing/touring this year to focus most of his time working for Discmania. Climo continues to tour and win Master's world titles against a strong field. I agree that he isn't competitive in MPO today, but that's because he's 15-20 years older than the guys playing MPO! Like I said, I could see them taking a sig disc from Climo at some point, but not while he's still touring and winning titles. I'd bet money that they wouldn't have taken the Destroyer from AJ if he were still winning majors.

 

[ChainoutStar]

That's kinda like Nike bumping Jordan. Its a sunk cost of having one of the best of the of all time repping your brand. It also sets a bad precident to perspective players considering signing with innova. The fact that innova doesn't profide significant financial support to the bulk of their touring players is well documented. The big draw is that if you win a world championship with them your pretty much set from royalties for a very long time. That is a big draw to them, and it's probably a bad idea to tweak that model.

That's a super solid point, and answers both of my questions from earlier :thmbup:

Plus Innova still has the proshop Tour Series so guys like Brinster and Sexton can still get some funds/royalties

 

[SD86]

There is a big difference between Avery and Climo. Avery won a world title in 2009 and hasn't won a single NT event or major since then (1 A Tier win in 2010 and a few B/C wins is all he's gotten, I checked on the PDGA site). Also, Avery retired from full time playing/touring this year to focus most of his time working for Discmania. Climo continues to tour and win Master's world titles against a strong field. I agree that he isn't competitive in MPO today, but that's because he's 15-20 years older than the guys playing MPO! Like I said, I could see them taking a sig disc from Climo at some point, but not while he's still touring and winning titles. I'd bet money that they wouldn't have taken the Destroyer from AJ if he were still winning majors.

Agreed. And they even gave Avery the consolation of a sig Teebird.

Side note: ...and just how did this thread get off into the weeds of Climo and Avery sig discs?!?!

 

[IllustratorVir]

There is a big difference between Avery and Climo. Avery won a world title in 2009 and hasn't won a single NT event or major since then (1 A Tier win in 2010 and a few B/C wins is all he's gotten, I checked on the PDGA site). Also, Avery retired from full time playing/touring this year to focus most of his time working for Discmania. Climo continues to tour and win Master's world titles against a strong field. I agree that he isn't competitive in MPO today, but that's because he's 15-20 years older than the guys playing MPO! Like I said, I could see them taking a sig disc from Climo at some point, but not while he's still touring and winning titles. I'd bet money that they wouldn't have taken the Destroyer from AJ if he were still winning majors.

That's a fair point. I guess the same could be said for Schultz, right? Although, his signature molds are bit less contested.

 

[IllustratorVir]

Agreed. And they even gave Avery the consolation of a sig Teebird.

Side note: ...and just how did this thread get off into the weeds of Climo and Avery sig discs?!?!

That was my fault, sorry everyone.

 

[hugheshilton]

That might be true. But if Innova thinks for even a moment that they can sell more firebirds by putting McBeth's name on it, I think they would do it. Like I said, I think Kenny will always have some sort of signature disc, at least for the foreseeable future.

I think Innova sells a lot of Firebirds with or without McBeth's name on it. I actually sort of doubt that putting McBeth's name on the FB would increase its sales all that much (whereas it will probably increase Monster sales quite a bit). I think in this case that Innova's priorities are more about trying to keep their stable of world champions happy. McBeth certainly does promote Innova and I'm sure that sells a lot of discs, so keeping him happy is important ($500k over 3 years + royalties currently says a lot). However, KC's name also sells plenty of discs, so they need to keep him happy as well. Don't think for a moment that Latitude and others haven't called up KC or McBeth and asked them to name a price. Latitude dearly wants a world champion promoting them and they're willing to pay up so I think Innova works hard to keep the ones they have happy.

 

[hugheshilton]

Alright, back to your regularly scheduled McPro Roc3's. I really like my Rancho Rocs, but if the McPros they release this year come out on the stable side, maybe I'll pick up a few to try out. I tried one when they first released them, but it was pretty understable out of the box so I wasn't really interested.

 

[SD86]

That was my fault, sorry everyone.

No need to apologize, and I did ask about McBeth's multiple sig discs. :doh:

As to McPro Roc3s, I'd like to get a few more because if it's true that McBeth is not going to be using them as much, and therefore not asking for them to be made, they may not get made. Fortunately, I also like the Star and Champ Roc3s as well as other molds in this area...