Payout

[DavidSauls]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

My opinion is that Ams should be playing trophy only and have better players packs. If people are signing up for Am divisions for the payouts, that's kind of lame imo.

If some people don't want to play an event because their potential winnings will be merchandise they don't want, they're not going to play it for a players pack of merchandise they don't want.

My opinion is that I'm reluctant to tell other Ams what they should want---though I wish their wants matched my own.

In this instance, that they wanted to play tournaments to play tournaments, and not for the loot they might get.

 

[Future_Primitive]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

My opinion is that Ams should be playing trophy only and have better players packs. If people are signing up for Am divisions for the payouts, that's kind of lame imo.

No problem with trophy only but I much prefer lower entry fees and little to no player pack. Just want to play and compete with others in my area and not be forced to buy a bunch of crap I don't want to do so. Give me $20 - $30 entry fee and a smooth running tournament and I am in. Force me to pay $45 - $60 to enter and take home a disc I don't want, a mini I won't use and a shirt that don't fit and yet another towel and I will probably find a league or casual round somewhere else.

 

[rhatton1]

Are there many/any tournaments in the states that don't have a player pack? It's not something we really do over here, people pay to play a competition, the competition is the draw not the merchandise. Allows us to keep entry costs lower. It seems to be something pushed by the manufacturers which would hurt their retailers unless to specifically launch a new product. As we don't have a local manufacturer this might be the reason.

Is the idea of player packs a specifically Disc Golf thing or is it something used as a draw to other sporting events in the US? I can't think of receiving a pack from any of the many different sports I've taken part in over the years.

 

[bnbanbury]

Are there many/any tournaments in the states that don't have a player pack? It's not something we really do over here, people pay to play a competition, the competition is the draw not the merchandise. Allows us to keep entry costs lower. It seems to be something pushed by the manufacturers which would hurt their retailers unless to specifically launch a new product. As we don't have a local manufacturer this might be the reason.

Is the idea of player packs a specifically Disc Golf thing or is it something used as a draw to other sporting events in the US? I can't think of receiving a pack from any of the many different sports I've taken part in over the years.

I know in terms of sanctioning, C tiers are the only tournaments that don't require a players pack for ams. B tiers is a $10 minimum value pack and A tiers are $25 dollar minimum value. Most am tournaments here have some piece of merchandise attached to registration.

 

[bnbanbury]

Whenever payout gets brought up there is always a contingent that says that AMs should be playing for trophies only. Well that's fine if you can fill the event without any type of player pack or payout. If events don't fill because they are all trophy only then maybe it would be better to rethink the model being used.

When it comes to what "should" be offered, I think the answer should just be whatever draws the most am participation to the tournament.

For me personally, a tournament on a great course for $15 with no merchandise sounds great. If you decide to run a tournament on a crappy course that people don't love to play, you are probably going to need some incentives.

 

[Discette]

Are there many/any tournaments in the states that don't have a player pack? It's not something we really do over here, people pay to play a competition, the competition is the draw not the merchandise. Allows us to keep entry costs lower. It seems to be something pushed by the manufacturers which would hurt their retailers unless to specifically launch a new product. As we don't have a local manufacturer this might be the reason.

Is the idea of player packs a specifically Disc Golf thing or is it something used as a draw to other sporting events in the US? I can't think of receiving a pack from any of the many different sports I've taken part in over the years.

In the US, the PDGA Tour Standards REQUIRES all A-Tier and B-Tier events to offer player packages with a minimum value of $25.00 for A-Tiers and $10.00 for B-Tier events.


http://www.pdga.com/pdga-documents/tour-documents/pdga-tour-standards

 

[DavidSauls]

Are there many/any tournaments in the states that don't have a player pack? It's not something we really do over here, people pay to play a competition, the competition is the draw not the merchandise. Allows us to keep entry costs lower. It seems to be something pushed by the manufacturers which would hurt their retailers unless to specifically launch a new product. As we don't have a local manufacturer this might be the reason.

Is the idea of player packs a specifically Disc Golf thing or is it something used as a draw to other sporting events in the US? I can't think of receiving a pack from any of the many different sports I've taken part in over the years.

It's not the manufacturers pushing it, so much as players having become addicted to it.

TDs do what they think players want, and will bring the most players (as bnbanbury said). They guess as to whether that's prize payouts, players packs, or lower fees, in whatever combination.

And, no, it doesn't seem to be prevalent in other sports here.

 

[Stardoggy]

Most of our local tournaments are run by DG shop owners, and I assume they profit off the retail value of the merchandise in the player packs. Therefore, bigger PP = bigger profits.

 

[UP Mountain Man]

I think that the root cause of the perceived problem lies in the fact that merchandise "wholesale to retail mark-up" is the only currently acceptable avenue for a TD to be compensated for their efforts.

You bet I'd be interested in playing in low cost trophy only events! Certainly not interested in TDing one, though! May as well just TD a Pro only event...

 

[lyleoross]

If some people don't want to play an event because their potential winnings will be merchandise they don't want, they're not going to play it for a players pack of merchandise they don't want.

My opinion is that I'm reluctant to tell other Ams what they should want---though I wish their wants matched my own.

In this instance, that they wanted to play tournaments to play tournaments, and not for the loot they might get.

This is my position but I like trophy only.

 

[rhatton1]

I know in terms of sanctioning, C tiers are the only tournaments that don't require a players pack for ams. B tiers is a $10 minimum value pack and A tiers are $25 dollar minimum value. Most am tournaments here have some piece of merchandise attached to registration.

Why is this mandated by the PDGA? Seems an odd thing for them to force. Mandating payout I understand but draw for the tournament I don't, it feels like a bit of a millstone for a TD wanting to run a B tier.

 

[rhatton1]

In the US, the PDGA Tour Standards REQUIRES all A-Tier and B-Tier events to offer player packages with a minimum value of $25.00 for A-Tiers and $10.00 for B-Tier events.


http://www.pdga.com/pdga-documents/tour-documents/pdga-tour-standards

Why did this happen? Totally understand mandating payouts to winners in the division, but I don't get the forced player pack angle from the PDGA....unless because the PDGA board was largely made up of manufacturers back in the day

I'm sure there was a good reason for it, i'm just not really sure what? I run a lot of events over here and want to make sure I'm not missing something!

 

[Stardoggy]

I would assume that at some point, it was difficult to fill tournaments. That is obviously not the case in the current environment, though...at least not where I live.

 

[kenjiac]

I play tournaments all the time. If i win something or get something in a players pack i don't throw which is most of the time I will eventually donate it. Grow the sport!! It's goes to the ring of fire box or ctps at tournaments. I'm happy with the competition of a tournament that's what i pay my entry fee for. I do like if you get funny money. I collect my payouts until i have enough to get a basket. They get used at our clinics and putting league and once in a while we will do some pirate golf and set up a temp course in a local park.

 

[DavidSauls]

Why did this happen? Totally understand mandating payouts to winners in the division, but I don't get the forced player pack angle from the PDGA....unless because the PDGA board was largely made up of manufacturers back in the day

I'm sure there was a good reason for it, i'm just not really sure what? I run a lot of events over here and want to make sure I'm not missing something!

I wasn't there, but I assume it was one of the few ways to separate the tiers, and make the higher tiers "higher".

It doesn't matter to the manufacturer, or the TD's bottom line. It comes out of the payout. So whether you give $1,000 in merch prizes, or $600 in merch prizes and $400 in merch players pack, the profit is the same.

 

[DavidSauls]

....by which I mean, the mandated players packs.

 

[scarpfish]

Most of our local tournaments are run by DG shop owners, and I assume they profit off the retail value of the merchandise in the player packs. Therefore, bigger PP = bigger profits.

This applies to the after event payouts too. It's also often where some of that 'added cash' for the pro divisions comes from.

 

[rhatton1]

It doesn't matter to the manufacturer, or the TD's bottom line. It comes out of the payout. So whether you give $1,000 in merch prizes, or $600 in merch prizes and $400 in merch players pack, the profit is the same.

Ah ok, I may have misread that bit in the past I thought there was a mandated pack for all players rather than an overall pot to be paid out at TD's discretion.

 

[sjberry2017]

Am listening to Smashboxx and they are discussing the notion of not going to a tournament because the payout is not from multiple manufacturers. That is, I'm not going to Ledgestone because they are only giving out Discraft.

People are actually mad about this. As John said, seems like a first world problem. Curious to see what people say.

If I was someone who had a chance at cashing in the top few spots but didn't really throw any Discraft, then I could see being turned off from playing the tournament. I know for a lot of people here it's more about the tournament experience (myself included), but for people who really care about that I can understand it being a turn off. I personally don't throw any discraft myself anymore, but I do like some of their molds and wouldn't be totally turned off. Plus locally you can just go to Play it Again Sports, trade all the Discraft in, and get stuff you throw. A bit of work and not recovering the full value of the payout, but still better than being stuck with them.

Personally, I think it's a bit silly to be mad at people for saying that's a turnoff from the tournament. Some people, especially those who have played a while and have their bags somewhat dialed in (I haven't really changed my core bag in a while, just dropped some molds and found others that complement the core better) and don't throw Discraft, could see the entry fee and their chances of cashing, realize that they'd rather not deal with unloading the discs, and say I'll pass. That's their right and their thought process.

And just because it's DGCR, here's a bit of conjecture. It seems that Nate Heinhold (sp?/sorry if I butchered it Nate!) really tries to go out on a limb and do different things and really puts his all into the tournament, which is great, but it seems when people criticize/complain about any of his decisions, his immediate reaction is to question why people feel that way/say they aren't justified (look at the ropes complaints and the removal of the NT designation the last couple years). To his credit, once the intial reaction wears off he does honestly evaluate and make changes, but it seems the immediate reaction whenever the players dislike an aspect of the Ledgestone is to first complain about the players feeling that way.

 

[Stardoggy]

$1300 worth of Zones. Tasty.