PDGA NT: 2021 Texas State Disc Golf Championship Mar 26-28

[autocrosscrx]

I'm a Dickerson homer, so I've only watched R1 Gatekeeper coverage, but it is a lot more watchable than the practice coverage. Between the drone previews, Earhart/Queen commentary, and the camera angles, the lines are pretty visible.

It also really helps to see a primarily backhand player like Grider play the course. It is kind of hard to see the line with guys that throw a variety of forehand shots, especially when they hit trees.

 

[Jolt]

Paige is playing really bad but she still got Young and Panis behind her. Just very strange results this week.
And every stat from Paige is bad, how can you loose your entire game?

 

[Ryan P.]

Only my mother calls me that.


(Mom, is that you?)


Anyway, I've tried several ways to look for evidence that certain players play better on certain types of courses. I haven't found any that can stand up to any kind of statistical test. But, no one wants to hear or believe that. Since it doesn't really matter, everyone can go ahead and have fun with their pareidolia.

Steve,
Have you checked how Eagle plays on very open courses vs. very wooded courses? I generally agree with you; people take one or two examples and blow them up in their head. However, with Eagle I can think of many examples of him playing well on very open courses and poorly on heavily wooded courses. I'm thinking Las Vegas/GBO/San Fran = very open and dogwood/maple hill/idlewild= heavily wooded.

And yes, before the naysayers speak up, I realize he won Idlewild last year. But that's my question: Are the select few tournaments that I remember a fair representation of the overall performance.

 

[biscoe]

Steve,
Have you checked how Eagle plays on very open courses vs. very wooded courses? I generally agree with you; people take one or two examples and blow them up in their head. However, with Eagle I can think of many examples of him playing well on very open courses and poorly on heavily wooded courses. I'm thinking Las Vegas/GBO/San Fran = very open and dogwood/maple hill/idlewild= heavily wooded.

And yes, before the naysayers speak up, I realize he won Idlewild last year. But that's my question: Are the select few tournaments that I remember a fair representation of the overall performance.

If you look at Eagle's current rating the rounds in it from what I would deem wooded courses average out to 1040. I left out an event at Sparkman because I have no knowledge of the course. Paige's woods rounds come out to 968. Sample size is woefully small but I would imagine the trend would be similar over a longer time.

 

[autocrosscrx]

Sparkman footage is on Youtube. It is a 10k foot course with a lot more green than brown.

 

[DiscFifty]

Dickerson pulling an Eagle and punching a tree. Glad he didn't get a much more debilitating injury.

 

[Steve West]

Steve,
Have you checked how Eagle plays on very open courses vs. very wooded courses? I generally agree with you; people take one or two examples and blow them up in their head. However, with Eagle I can think of many examples of him playing well on very open courses and poorly on heavily wooded courses. I'm thinking Las Vegas/GBO/San Fran = very open and dogwood/maple hill/idlewild= heavily wooded.

And yes, before the naysayers speak up, I realize he won Idlewild last year. But that's my question: Are the select few tournaments that I remember a fair representation of the overall performance.

Even if they were a fair representation of what Eagle did, with hundreds of players it's not hard to find one or two that support any hypothesis. It would be expected that some player happened to do well on several open courses and poorly on several wooded courses* just by chance.

Having said that, winning Idlewild is pretty good evidence that he is not at all a poor player in the woods.


* Assuming there really is such a dichotomy, which also hasn't been shown. Maybe disc golf skills are universal. Maybe TDs skillfully use whatever amount of rope is needed to make up for any lack of trees. Maybe only one or a few trees in the woods are important so there is no real difference between just a few trees vs. a lot of trees. Maybe the size of the holes is adjusted to match the size of the gaps to fine-tune the probabilities for optimal scoring spread (or maximum excitement).

 

[Flick Maniac]

He got married... we all know that means he peaked...

No, that happens and the guys stop peaking altogether.

 

[Ryan P.]

Even if they were a fair representation of what Eagle did, with hundreds of players it's not hard to find one or two that support any hypothesis. It would be expected that some player happened to do well on several open courses and poorly on several wooded courses* just by chance.

Having said that, winning Idlewild is pretty good evidence that he is not at all a poor player in the woods.


* Assuming there really is such a dichotomy, which also hasn't been shown. Maybe disc golf skills are universal. Maybe TDs skillfully use whatever amount of rope is needed to make up for any lack of trees. Maybe only one or a few trees in the woods are important so there is no real difference between just a few trees vs. a lot of trees. Maybe the size of the holes is adjusted to match the size of the gaps to fine-tune the probabilities for optimal scoring spread (or maximum excitement).

Seems like 1040 is sufficiently below his average to me. It's definitely going to be a small sample size, but if he averages 1040 at wooded courses, and he's roughly a 1050 player, then is it fair to guess he's a 1060 played on wide open courses? If so that's a two stroke swing. I realize anything with any player is a fairly small sample.

I also think there are certain holes at idle wild where his distance is a factor. Hole 1 he can get an eagle look whereas most can't. Same with a few others. So while it is a heavily wooded course, it's a course that suits his game well.

Yes, again, naysayers: I'm not trying to convince myself that I'm right. I'm saying what my thoughts are so people can poke holes in them.

Also, to whoever was talking about independent researchers being better: since they don't have an Glenda it's harder for them to find interesting stuff because they're simply looking for correlations. The people that are biased are the ones that find helpful stuff a lot of the time, because they're have ideas and then go see if they're correct. Everyone needs to be double checked.

 

[brutalbrutus]

Double post...

 

[brutalbrutus]

Today's free stream on youtube...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKHlXbYvYr0

 

[Shankapotamus]

PP struggling again... I wonder if she has an injury or something...

I think PP needs a better forehand to be competitive in the woods; it's so essential to scrambling. Also, she needs more patience.

 

[Cgkdisc]

I think you have to combine effective hole length segments on a wooded course to see any skill difference emerge. We know a player's max golf distance is a factor on open courses. When they can't effectively use that advantage on shots in the woods, it brings shorter distance woods players like Dickerson, MJ and many others into play. The point being that you have to delve into the specifics of each wooded hole to determine how many players have the power to reach the hole in the case of par 3s or the landing zones on par 4s.

A good example is the "wooded" Maple Hill hole 16 where KJ slipped and aced. That's a hole where only a handful of top players have the power to shape a shot through the relatively wide wooded fairway to reach the pin. Contrast that with some of the holes at Waco where no matter how far you are able to throw, the shot shape and doglegish aspect of them only allowed a throw of 280 to the landing area around the corner and remain in the fairway. Most of the field at least had the power to throw that far even if some of their percentages of hitting the landing area was lower than the elite players.

 

[brutalbrutus]

Today's free stream on youtube...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKHlXbYvYr0

They made a new stream...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpzFEZo2OAw

 

[brutalbrutus]

Casey White parking a flex shot on hole 1

 

[Jay Dub]

Casey huh? And the forum Casey has been missing lately.

I ain't sayin' but just sayin'. opcorn:

 

[ILUVSMGS18]

PP struggling again... I wonder if she has an injury or something...

I heard something about an injury to her finger(s) on her throwing hand in the DC PM and PP Colletors group on FB. Dunno if it's true, but it makes sense.

 

[ILUVSMGS18]

FPO should be entertaining as well with the top 11 separated by 4

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Casey huh? And the forum Casey has been missing lately.

I ain't sayin' but just sayin'. opcorn:

This evoked a very audible chuckle from me.
I hope KJ goes on a tear to catch up on the lead card. Wysocki is smokin, but Dogwood is a course where strokes can poke up quickly.

 

[runningoz]

Can we trade Vegas for this course?