Rules enforcement from top PDGA pros

[araytx]

You don't get disqualified or penalized further for signing a scorecard that has a score higher, only DQed for a lower score. Disc golf penalizes four strokes either way.

As far as this thread and time limits, i disagree that Nikko is commintting a penalty. Part of the rule is you get to look at your lie before the 30 seconds counts. From my tourney experience no one really has any idea what 30 seconds actually is. So without someone ready to click a stopwatch once he has assessed his lie, you can't call a penalty.

I see the opposite problem in events. Guys are in way too much of a hurry to putt out, costing them strokes every round. You can wait for the basket and the line of vision to clear, then you can assess your putt, then you have 30 seconds to putt or throw for that matter. If someone walks through your line of vision, you can restart fresh in my opinion.

Where in the heck did you get that part from (in red)?. See Steve's post right before me. You don't get "free time" to 'assess' your putt. Once the area is free and clear of distractions it's free and clear of distractions.

As far as the part in blue, I may be a minority opinion, but there is nothing in this rule that states there is a "re-set". It says AFTER the area is free and clear of distractions you have 30 seconds. It never says 30 consecutive seconds. Therefore the emphasis (to me) is on "ONCE". It makes no mention of "additional distractions leading to additional 30-consecutive seconds." Thirty seconds is 30 seconds. Whether they are 30 consecutive seconds (to me) is something the RC might need to clarify.

 

[_MTL_]

There is absolutely no additional "pre-shot" time. That's absurd.

However the rule does say that a distraction resets the clock but does not define what a distraction is. I've many times argued that all Nikko has to do if called is explain that something was distracting him (the calmness, the basket had a chip of paint on it, a bird humming, anything) and there's nothing that can be done under the rules.

 

[krupicka]

There is absolutely no additional "pre-shot" time. That's absurd.

However the rule does say that a distraction resets the clock but does not define what a distraction is. I've many times argued that all Nikko has to do if called is explain that something was distracting him (the calmness, the basket had a chip of paint on it, a bird humming, anything) and there's nothing that can be done under the rules.

The RC has tried to come up with something better than distraction, and it's a challenge. If anyone has something better for "The playing area is clear and free of distractions.", please drop me a line. One idea is to just shorten it to "The player area is clear" and remove the idea of distractions altogether.

 

[_MTL_]

The RC has tried to come up with something better than distraction, and it's a challenge. If anyone has something better for "The playing area is clear and free of distractions.", please drop me a line. One idea is to just shorten it to "The player area is clear" and remove the idea of distractions altogether.

I'm sure. I don't have a clear better answer - event "the player area is clear" leaves a lot of room to interpretation.

I don't see as this biggest pressing rules issue, or even close.

The RC needs to start focusing on different sets of rules for juniors, amateurs and professionals IMHO. No other sport except maybe bowling, has the same rules for every person.

 

[BillFleming]

Maybe...
You must take your stance once it is safe to throw. Once you take your stance you have 30 seconds to complete the throw.

 

[davetherocketguy]

I'm sure. I don't have a clear better answer - event "the player area is clear" leaves a lot of room to interpretation.

I don't see as this biggest pressing rules issue, or even close.

The RC needs to start focusing on different sets of rules for juniors, amateurs and professionals IMHO. No other sport except maybe bowling, has the same rules for every person.

Just out of curiosity...Would you be able to share what you think is the most pressing rules issue? If you don't want to share that though...I understand

 

[roblee]

Seriously, if it's not or can't be enforced why does it matter how it's stated?

 

[DiscFifty]

However the rule does say that a distraction resets the clock...

I couldn't verify that... do you have a link to the rule that says that? Thanks.

 

[Jay Dub]

I'm too lazy to look up the rules myself do it for me

Fixed.

 

[_MTL_]

Just out of curiosity...Would you be able to share what you think is the most pressing rules issue? If you don't want to share that though...I understand

It's astonishing to me that we have the exact same rules for all players. We absolutely should have different rules and standards for juniors, amateurs, professionals and elite professionals. All sports do it that way.

Think about it - the rules for the game in the NBA and college basketball are different and those both differ from HS games. Same thing with baseball. Football.

Rule changes I would make:
Circle distance - juniors and amateurs 33 feet. Pros 66 feet.
Incorrect scorecard - juniors, no penalty. amateurs 2 throws. pros DQ
Missing a hole - juniors and ams - par plus 4. Pros DQ

The most pressing changes would come in the competition manual.
Alcohol use - Juniors - auto DQ, auto suspension. Amateurs - DQ, but no further penalty. Pros - DQ, auto suspension. Use at an elite series event - DQ, automatic 1 year suspension.

I also think we need to have standards for respecting the game at media. What Paige said this week regarding fake news about Catrina winning POY at Vegas Press conference in my opinion damages the game. There's nothing that can be done, but statements like this should be held accountable at elite series events.

This is what is off the top of my head. I just can't wrap my head around the fact that we use the same rules and standards for a Junior C tier and the pro world championships. It makes absolutely no sense to me.

 

[_MTL_]

I couldn't verify that... do you have a link to the rule that says that? Thanks.

https://www.pdga.com/rules/official...d a reasonable,clear and free of distractions.

If the area isn't free of distractions, the clock resets. You must throw within 30 seconds once all of those listed items are checked.

 

[Jay Dub]

Incorrect scorecard - juniors, no penalty. amateurs 2 throws. pros DQ
Missing a hole - juniors and ams - par plus 4. Pros DQ

Yes! They need to be held to higher standards. :clap:

 

[DiscFifty]

https://www.pdga.com/rules/official...d a reasonable,clear and free of distractions.

If the area isn't free of distractions, the clock resets. You must throw within 30 seconds once all of those listed items are checked.

Thanks for the reply, I'm familiar with that rule but no where in that specific rule does it state anything about the clock re-setting. Like ARay said earlier, I agree that the 30 seconds should not be interpreted as something that can be reset. You can pause it...but regardless how many times it's paused... you have to throw when 30 seconds is up. But...I also agree that this is another vague PDGA rule that promotes varied interpretation.

 

[_MTL_]

Thanks for the reply, I'm familiar with that rule but no where in that specific rule does it state anything about the clock re-setting. Like ARay said earlier, I agree that the 30 seconds should not be interpreted as something that can be reset. You can pause it...but regardless how many times it's paused... you have to throw when 30 seconds is up. But...I also agree that this is another vague PDGA rule that promotes varied interpretation.

I also don't see anywhere it says it pauses as opposes to re-sets, but I fully understand that interpretation.

But I agree completely regarding the vagueness of this rule.

 

[krupicka]

he current interpretation is that it does reset. The RC already has tightened up the wording to indicate that it resets in their proposals going before the BOD. T

 

[Steve West]

Whether the 30 seconds resets or not does not make very much difference because of:

3.02 Pace of Play
A. All competitors shall play without undue delay ...

So, if you are at your lie with your disc in your hand but have to pause for a distraction, you are required to get back to throwing right after the distraction has passed. Anything else would be "undue delay".

You can't say "distraction" then take a 29.9 second break.

Similarly, if you are ready to throw you should not stall during the first 30 seconds.

 

[Steve West]

...
Rule changes I would make:
Circle distance - juniors and amateurs 33 feet. Pros 66 feet. ...

Does that extend to different rules for female and older divisions?

 

[_MTL_]

Does that extend to different rules for female and older divisions?

it should.

My overall point is we should consider a major rules overhaul that aligns with the divisions competing.

And while we are it, how about rating caps for amateur age protected divisions in C tiers and B tiers.

 

[davetherocketguy]

It's astonishing to me that we have the exact same rules for all players. We absolutely should have different rules and standards for juniors, amateurs, professionals and elite professionals. All sports do it that way.

Think about it - the rules for the game in the NBA and college basketball are different and those both differ from HS games. Same thing with baseball. Football.

Rule changes I would make:
Circle distance - juniors and amateurs 33 feet. Pros 66 feet.
Incorrect scorecard - juniors, no penalty. amateurs 2 throws. pros DQ
Missing a hole - juniors and ams - par plus 4. Pros DQ

The most pressing changes would come in the competition manual.
Alcohol use - Juniors - auto DQ, auto suspension. Amateurs - DQ, but no further penalty. Pros - DQ, auto suspension. Use at an elite series event - DQ, automatic 1 year suspension.

I also think we need to have standards for respecting the game at media. What Paige said this week regarding fake news about Catrina winning POY at Vegas Press conference in my opinion damages the game. There's nothing that can be done, but statements like this should be held accountable at elite series events.

This is what is off the top of my head. I just can't wrap my head around the fact that we use the same rules and standards for a Junior C tier and the pro world championships. It makes absolutely no sense to me.

This is a really really interesting response...thanks! That's all stuff I've never even contemplated but makes complete sense.

While we're at it, can we please get rid of this Pro/Am designation? With the exception of the very few that are truly making a living at this sport 99.9% of people who play in tournaments are really Ams.

 

[_MTL_]

This is a really really interesting response...thanks! That's all stuff I've never even contemplated but makes complete sense.

While we're at it, can we please get rid of this Pro/Am designation? With the exception of the very few that are truly making a living at this sport 99.9% of people who play in tournaments are really Ams.

By definition someone who plays for money is a professional. Your local golf course has a guy in the clubhouse that is a PGA Professional, but he's not playing on tour. It's very similar.

The designation doesn't need to come at Pro / Am, it needs to come at elite pro and everyone else and rules need to be different at the elite series level, especially conduct related matters.