Rules enforcement from top PDGA pros

[Jolt]

The official who dealt with Lisa on the ruling went out of his way upthread to say how well she handled it.

Yes, and this almost make me think that the thing Kona talked about in her Instagram post was something else

 

[krupicka]

Yes, and this almost make me think that the thing Kona talked about in her Instagram post was something else

It's not. There is a lot more to the story, and I'm not going to into it here.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

It's not. There is a lot more to the story, and I'm not going to into it here.

Let's just leave it at that. We don't need to air every tidbit. If people want that kind of drama, they can watch soap operas.

 

[Jolt]

It's not. There is a lot more to the story, and I'm not going to into it here.

Ok,but it's things like this that make calling someone on a rule violation hard...it can become a big deal ..is it wort it?

 

[krupicka]

Ok,but it's things like this that make calling someone on a rule violation hard...it can become a big deal ..is it wort it?

Life is hard.

 

[ToddL]

Make the call. Accept the call. It's not personal; it's the rules.

 

[teemkey]

Make the call. Accept the call. It's not personal; it's the rules.

The problem here is that the called player did not know the rule she was called on. Or, maybe krupicka will clarify, she may not have interpreted the rule properly.

 

[DiscFifty]

Just a pic from a quick Google search as an example.

So what's the rules violation in this pic?

 

[cheesethin]

So what's the rules violation in this pic?

I'll bite.

It appears to show that there was no supporting point in contact with the lie when the disc was released. 802.07.A.1

 

[ToddL]

The problem here is that the called player did not know the rule she was called on. Or, maybe krupicka will clarify, she may not have interpreted the rule properly.

Yea, I got that.
It was more in response to the general feeling that when you call a violation on someone, it can become a big deal. Is it worth it?
You call a foot fault on a player, they turn right around and give you a courtesy violation the next time you say anything louder than a whisper.
You call a time violation on a player, they spend the next month whining about how you gamed them and got in their head and that's why they lost the tournament.
You call a courtesy violation on someone, and half of the internet freaks out, harasses you, and boycotts your tour discs because they don't want to support a jerk.

If you see a penalty, call the penalty. If you get called for a penalty, accept it and move on. That goes for everyone, players and spectators alike. (well, spectators don't get to call penalties, but you get my point)

 

[Jay Dub]

So what's the rules violation in this pic?

I see you still have not read the rule book.

Here's a suggestion, before commenting on anything else regarding rules don't just read the rules, learn them.

 

[Rastnav]

I see you still have not read the rule book.

Here's a suggestion, before commenting on anything else regarding rules don't just read the rules, learn them.

Please do you provide us with elucidation on how a supporting point in contact with the playing surface within the lie is not required at disc release. Please cite the rule, as I am not aware of it and would like to be.

 

[cheesethin]

Please do you provide us with elucidation on how a supporting point in contact with the playing surface within the lie is not required at disc release. Please cite the rule, as I am not aware of it and would like to be.

i think you may have misread Jaydubs post and/or meaning........

 

[Rastnav]

i think you may have misread Jaydubs post and/or meaning........

Oh yeah, my bad. I thought he was responding to you. My bad, Jay Dub. Mea Culpa and Hail Mary.

 

[BillFleming]

So what's the rules violation in this pic?

This is a tough one and the main reason you don't see it called.

Is the disc still gripped by her? You can't tell clearly by the photo...it COULD be out of her grip (you really can't see if her fingers are still on the disc or not). The photo also isn't at the moment both feet left the ground....so there could be better evidence of the disc still in her grip at the time she leaves the ground.

I think this is one rule that is impossible to enforce as it happens so quickly it is difficult for the eye to spot what happened. And video/photos are normally not allowed for rules questions (actually, I don't think they are ever allowed, but I'm not 100% sure of that).

The best solution would be for the PDGA to ban 'jump putts'.

 

[teemkey]

Yea, I got that.
It was more in response to the general feeling that when you call a violation on someone, it can become a big deal. Is it worth it?
You call a foot fault on a player, they turn right around and give you a courtesy violation the next time you say anything louder than a whisper.
You call a time violation on a player, they spend the next month whining about how you gamed them and got in their head and that's why they lost the tournament.
You call a courtesy violation on someone, and half of the internet freaks out, harasses you, and boycotts your tour discs because they don't want to support a jerk.

If you see a penalty, call the penalty. If you get called for a penalty, accept it and move on. That goes for everyone, players and spectators alike. (well, spectators don't get to call penalties, but you get my point)

I'd add: If you disagree with a call, check the rule book, play a provisional if necessary, and appeal to the TD after completing your round.

 

[_MTL_]

This is a tough one and the main reason you don't see it called.

Is the disc still gripped by her? You can't tell clearly by the photo...it COULD be out of her grip (you really can't see if her fingers are still on the disc or not). The photo also isn't at the moment both feet left the ground....so there could be better evidence of the disc still in her grip at the time she leaves the ground.

I think this is one rule that is impossible to enforce as it happens so quickly it is difficult for the eye to spot what happened. And video/photos are normally not allowed for rules questions (actually, I don't think they are ever allowed, but I'm not 100% sure of that).

The best solution would be for the PDGA to ban 'jump putts'.

How do you properly word it without eliminating the ability / need to follow through?

The solution, IMHO, is to extend the circle to 75 feet or so.

 

[Jay Dub]

How do you properly word it without eliminating the ability / need to follow through?

The solution, IMHO, is to extend the circle to 75 feet or so.

I like the 75' over changing the wording. But the wording might be something like a falling putt vs a jump putt.? Falling is permitted jumping is not. Feet need to stay on the ground.

 

[robdeforge]

How do you properly word it without eliminating the ability / need to follow through?

The solution, IMHO, is to extend the circle to 75 feet or so.

I don't have a solution for jump putts, but step putts seem like they'd actually be kinda easy to eliminate from the game. add a vertical plane component to the front of the lie, and you can't have either foot past that. I think this would still allow follow throughs and have basically no downsides that I can think of, other than being a clunky rule...

 

[BillFleming]

So tell me....do you see players doing 'jump tee shots'? How about 'jump fairway drives'? The rules are the same....nothing in the PDGA rules allows 'jump putts'. You are allowed to move forward after releasing the disc...but until you release, one part of your body must be behind the lie touching the ground. Just state - jump putts are not legal.

By the way....I forget which tournament video it was on....but a player did do a 'jump tee shot'. As I recall it, it was a short hole and they did the 'jump putt', BUT they jumped and landed while still on the tee pad, so they never moved forward. Might have still been illegal if both feet left the ground before releasing the disc....but I feel the important part was that they never advanced past their 'marker/end of the tee pad' during the 'jump'.