The Inevitable 2022 Pros Switching Sponsors Thread

[mshelton]

Back in the day I can't remember any of the guys I played with who thought negatively of the jk valk or aviar.

They were great discs and she dominated the ladies field at the time, no big deal.

I threw a few back when I started, thought the signature was kinda cool, didn't matter if it belonged to a woman. Fast forward to today and I would much rather have the JK dis look than PP's name in 2" fonts on the disc, that's a little too much self promotion for my tastes.

 

[R-Ogre]

I threw a few back when I started, thought the signature was kinda cool, didn't matter if it belonged to a woman. Fast forward to today and I would much rather have the JK dis look than PP's name in 2" fonts on the disc, that's a little too much self promotion for my tastes.

The 14 year old in me just can't get past "PP"

 

[nothinbuttree]

The 14 year old in me just can't get past "PP"

I can't get past the fact that she throws her own discs like crap. If the person on the disc can't throw it well...

 

[flatflip]

I can't get past the fact that she throws her own discs like crap. If the person on the disc can't throw it well...

5x world champ can't throw discs well? Change your shorts.

 

[Hampstead]

5x world champ can't throw discs well? Change your shorts.

How many of those 5 did she win throwing her current signature discs?

 

[nothinbuttree]

5x world champ can't throw discs well? Change your shorts.

I didn't say she doesn't throw discs well. But she has struggled on many throws with her Passion, especially at DGLO, where it literally cost her the victory, with several OB strokes. Almost like its too understable for her power (I rarely have that particular problem).
My point is that if you have your name on something, it best work well for you. Nate's Firebird is money for him. I could never use it like he does, but many players can, and it sells well.

 

[R-Ogre]

I didn't say she doesn't throw discs well. But she has struggled on many throws with her Passion, especially at DGLO, where it literally cost her the victory, with several OB strokes. Almost like its too understable for her power (I rarely have that particular problem).

Didn't she flip her fierce into oblivion a couple times on up shots too? Seemed like I watched a couple where I was thinking why didn't she just throw something OS like a Zone

 

[rjnoodlearm]

Seriously? That's your interpretation of "par" :doh:

Mine, and about 10 million other people.

 

[rjnoodlearm]

Par has been solved. That's not an issue.

Which do you think says more about the way Emerson Keith played at USDGC: The 10 over par on one hole, or the 10 under par total on 68 other holes?

Would it be at all credible to say I was better than Emerson if I got only 9 over on that particular hole? Or would it be more credible to say I was better if I got 11 under total on 68 other holes?

Obviously I have no chance at one of those. Yet, the raw scores can't tell the difference.

Your first question is a straw man. Naturally the 10 over is an outlier but so what? We all have to own our outliers, even Emerson Keith. And in any case no one will say you are "better" than Emerson Keith on the basis of one hole or one tournament.

Your argument would make a lot more sense to me if you were suggesting that ratings be calculated differently instead of round scores.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Your first question is a straw man. Naturally the 10 over is an outlier but so what? We all have to own our outliers, even Emerson Keith. And in any case no one will say you are "better" than Emerson Keith on the basis of one hole or one tournament.

Your argument would make a lot more sense to me if you were suggesting that ratings be calculated differently instead of round scores.

Look at it another way. Players have direct control on how high of a score they can shoot on a hole or round but not as much control on how low despite our best efforts. Our ratings team regularly got asked why we didn't eliminate a player's best score for determining ratings but sometimes eliminated their worst score(s). You can't go out on a day and predetermine you'll shoot the best score of your life but can always shoot the worst score at will. We had to determine how much of a bad score was normal variation and how much was either deliberate or you were giving up such as going for ace runs and risky long putts with a dose of bad luck. A player's personal stats helped make those decisions objectively.

BTW, golf does the same thing with their Equitable Stroke Control (ESC) system which caps a player's max score on each hole for handicap calculations based on their current handicap, essentially their skill level. The point is that good scores are more indicative of skill than scores above par beyond a certain point.

 

[Steve West]

Your first question is a straw man. Naturally the 10 over is an outlier but so what? We all have to own our outliers, even Emerson Keith. And in any case no one will say you are "better" than Emerson Keith on the basis of one hole or one tournament.

Your argument would make a lot more sense to me if you were suggesting that ratings be calculated differently instead of round scores.

Do we have outliers where we score 10 better than expected on one hole?

If we did, we'd get a clearer picture of skill by discounting those, too. But, outliers overwhelmingly go one way. So, when deviations in the downward direction happen, they tell us more about the skill of the player than the one- or two-throw score difference would indicate.

I'm not suggesting we change round scores across the board. Basic stroke play is not going anywhere. I'm saying Stableford - and some modifications of it - could be an alternative way to keep score sometimes; When the importance of more precisely measuring skill outweighs the simplicity, understandability, and acceptance of just counting throws.

Which would not be the case for most tournaments.

(Didn't I start a new thread about this?)

 

[Nick Pacific]

How many of those 5 did she win throwing her current signature discs?

There is very little difference between a Fierce and a Deputy. Paige was winning all those titles regardless of what was in her bag. She's the highest rated FPO player currently of all time and has been across multiple sponsors and molds of discs, which means she throws discs better than any FPO player who's ever played the game.

 

[Nick Pacific]

Didn't she flip her fierce into oblivion a couple times on up shots too? Seemed like I watched a couple where I was thinking why didn't she just throw something OS like a Zone

She's had a bit of a case of the yankees lately, and either trying to over compensate by early releasing or not and just yankee doodling into the shule right. Her timing has been a tad off the last month or so of the tour on the footage I have seen. She's done it with a lot of her drives, regardless of the mold, even with very stable discs like the Zeus she's been yanking over on. That can happen.

 

[ChrisWoj]

I think Pierce needs to get comfortable with the fact that being one of the GOAT female throwers of all time is no longer enough to win every tournament. Her issues remind me of how easy it is to throw course record rounds when I'm not playing against anybody that's really any good. When I'm at our local pitch and putt playing against a field of locals in a weekly sanctioned round its easier to throw up a super-hot round because there's simply no worry that any given individual poor throw is going to impact my standing in the field. It is way easier to get into my own head-space and distract myself when a single individual poor throw might impact my standing in the field.

I know that this isn't necessarily the best mindset to have when golfing, but that's where I am. I feel like it strongly accounts for about half of my hottest rounds ever being sanctioned singles rounds despite my having played WAYYY fewer sanctioned singles rounds in the past 15+ years than tournament rounds.

 

[rjnoodlearm]

Look at it another way. Players have direct control on how high of a score they can shoot on a hole or round but not as much control on how low despite our best efforts. Our ratings team regularly got asked why we didn't eliminate a player's best score for determining ratings but sometimes eliminated their worst score(s). You can't go out on a day and predetermine you'll shoot the best score of your life but can always shoot the worst score at will. We had to determine how much of a bad score was normal variation and how much was either deliberate or you were giving up such as going for ace runs and risky long putts with a dose of bad luck. A player's personal stats helped make those decisions objectively.

BTW, golf does the same thing with their Equitable Stroke Control (ESC) system which caps a player's max score on each hole for handicap calculations based on their current handicap, essentially their skill level. The point is that good scores are more indicative of skill than scores above par beyond a certain point.

Yes. I don't disagree with any of this.

 

[rjnoodlearm]

Do we have outliers where we score 10 better than expected on one hole?

If we did, we'd get a clearer picture of skill by discounting those, too. But, outliers overwhelmingly go one way. So, when deviations in the downward direction happen, they tell us more about the skill of the player than the one- or two-throw score difference would indicate.

I'm not suggesting we change round scores across the board. Basic stroke play is not going anywhere. I'm saying Stableford - and some modifications of it - could be an alternative way to keep score sometimes; When the importance of more precisely measuring skill outweighs the simplicity, understandability, and acceptance of just counting throws.

Which would not be the case for most tournaments.

(Didn't I start a new thread about this?)

Ok. Got it. I misunderstood where you were going with this.

 

[Nick Pacific]

I think Pierce needs to get comfortable with the fact that being one of the GOAT female throwers of all time is no longer enough to win every tournament. Her issues remind me of how easy it is to throw course record rounds when I'm not playing against anybody that's really any good. When I'm at our local pitch and putt playing against a field of locals in a weekly sanctioned round its easier to throw up a super-hot round because there's simply no worry that any given individual poor throw is going to impact my standing in the field. It is way easier to get into my own head-space and distract myself when a single individual poor throw might impact my standing in the field.

I know that this isn't necessarily the best mindset to have when golfing, but that's where I am. I feel like it strongly accounts for about half of my hottest rounds ever being sanctioned singles rounds despite my having played WAYYY fewer sanctioned singles rounds in the past 15+ years than tournament rounds.

Yep I think that's part of it. I also think there are a couple things going on over the past couple years that have changed. There is waaay more OB nowadays on tour courses than there was say 5 years ago. That really plays against her more so than most of the field because of her distance and go for it mentality and gunslinger drives that can get away from her. Not just the drives but the approaches and working the green. I am pretty sure she is number 1 on strokes for penalty/OB and has been almost every year they've kept stats for that.

I also think that nowadays there are FPO tees that are shorter and more scorable for a larger % of the field than in prior days when the women played the MPO tees only. Gone are the days of the long MPO 400ft par 3 holes peppered all over the course that she was the only one who could score on. Back in say 2014 or so someone like Heather Young or Sarah Hokom would have had little chance scoring on a lot of those tour courses they'd play with all the long holes that they simply couldn't reach. Nowadays the holes are shorter and that favors players like the aforementioned two and Missy Gannon and whatnot.

 

[rj29274]

who will be the surprise mover this off season?

 

[Hampstead]

There is very little difference between a Fierce and a Deputy. Paige was winning all those titles regardless of what was in her bag. She's the highest rated FPO player currently of all time and has been across multiple sponsors and molds of discs, which means she throws discs better than any FPO player who's ever played the game.

So none?

Got it.


Thanks.

 

[hurricaine]

This is the most boring sponsor thread in the last 5 years. by far.