When should you move to pro?

[whiz]

So the title of this thread is a bit deceiving but I have been thinking about moving to open this year. After having talked with a number of fellow disc golfers on the topic, I decided to do a (little) bit of math and see how the pro fields in a couple different states stacked up. I purposefully looked at Illinois (my previous state of residence) and North Carolina (my current state of residence) to see what the level of competition in the open division was like.

Here is what I did:

I took a three month period during the height of the disc golf season in 2011, June-August and looked at all C-tiers and B-tiers in each state. I then calculated data for round rating averages for first place in open and last cash in open. I used only B and C tier events because I feel those events draw more local players and fewer touring pros and better represent the true level of competition in each state. I looked at 15 tournaments in Illinois and 11 in North Carolina. Here are the results.

Average round rating of winning pro in IL: 1006
Average round rating of winning pro in NC: 1027

Average round rating of last cash pro in IL: 976
Average round rating of last cash pro in NC: 990

Highest average round rating of winning pro in IL: 1024
Highest average round rating of winning pro in NC: 1047

Lowest average round rating of winning pro in IL: 988
Lowest average round rating of winning pro in NC: 988

Highest average round rating of last cash in IL: 995
Highest average round rating of last cash in NC: 1027

Lowest average round rating of last cash in IL: 950
Lowest average round rating of last cash in NC: 955

In my opinion, this shows why there are far fewer highly rated amateur players in Illinois. You barely have to average over 1000 to win a good percentage of the tournaments you enter. Once a player can shoot at the 980ish level semi-regularly they can, in Illinois, make their money back at the least when playing pro.

In North Carolina, by contrast, if you average around 1000 you may get last cash but you will rarely ever be winning any tournaments, even C-tiers. I think this may be part of why there are many 950-1000 rated players in North Carolina who have not yet moved up to open.

So, at what level do people usually move up to pro in your region? What level/rating would you want to be at to move up to pro?

 

[Smigles]

There are only age protected cathegories in my area, since in all of switzerland there are maybe 100 players tops. I guess you want to be well over 900 to move pro, maybe 940 + ?


But then again, IMO you shouldnt only move up once you can hit the price money. I mean that there is more in the field than just those top 10 finishers who win their money back. If you are only in it for the money, you play for the wrong reasons anyway.

I say move up as soon as you can. You will learn more. You will find tougher challenges. That is as long as you are in it for the challenge and the learning experience. If you just want to sandbag your way to some prices, well, you can stay amateur forever.


but then again, there is nothing wrong with knowing your limits. If you for example played for several years, play a average of maybe 920 or so, and know that you wont have the time to put into practice to improve that, then I see no harm in staying whatever division that rating would give you.

 

[rusch_bag]

Wisconsin is similar to Illinois. Seems like once you hit 950 you are supposed to move up to open or people start giving you crap. Chris Heeren and Scott Burtard are both rated right around 1000 and pretty much take turns winning all of the events around here. Terry Miller is sort of changing how it works around here though by starting an am series of events. I don't know if it will make people stick around in advanced longer but a lot of those lower rated "pros" are playing these events as they are under 970. Those same guys are still shooting open though on weekends when the division is offered. Kind of a mess around here right now lol.

 

[The Hammer]

When you are finishing top ten at Worlds, and are in the top ten of rated Ams; it's time to move up.

 

[rusch_bag]

I played am nats one year (the year that wiggins won) and disliked the NC guys that were rated that high and still playing adv, but now that you showed that data I guess I don't blame you guys for still playing adv, but it seems like you guys are the odd ones out and not the norm so remember that when you are playing these big events and people are mad at you for playing. I moved up to open around here because I got bored with adv. I was playing what I considered poor for myself and still getting top 5 in bigger events so I decided it was time to move up and try some new challenges for myself. I didn't have the budget to play any of the big tournaments anymore either though so that made my easier to move up.

 

[Dr.Seuss]

I am at a place in my life and game were I pick and choose what open events to play. I know that I don't have enough time before every tournament to practice properly and be competitive in open.

Last year I was playing alot during the summer and into the fall, I played open half of last year. I only cashed once but I learned a ton from playing with the 1000 rated players. I took some time off and started in AM 1 again this year, I have no desire to donate to the touring guys at the GBO. However I am already signed up for an Open event in May that is local.

If your rating allows you to bounce between AM 1 and open there is no reason not to pick your division according to the circumstances.

 

[JoshEpoo]

Your numbers mean very little because we don't know which tournaments you selected but obviously which division you play in has a lot to do with your local competition, and North Carolina has a lot of 1000+ players.

Largely it depends on what your goals are. Do you want to keep winning Am tournaments for the thrills and merch, or do you want to maybe cash in Pro and continue to try and play at a higher level? Also, beating Big Jerm just once would be more of a rush than winning 20 am B tiers...

 

[New013]

yea playing pro in NC means beating a lot of good disc golfers. Schwebby, Jerm, Gallops, Wiggins, Johansen, Hodges...

you'd probably have a hard time winning womens open now that Elaine King moved here.

 

[vonDrehle]

yea playing pro in NC means beating a lot of good disc golfers. Schwebby, Jerm, Gallops, Wiggins, Johansen, Hodges...

you'd probably have a hard time winning womens open now that Elaine King moved here.

One of the problems for the weaker pros is they ^^ normally stay in NC so to win you have to play top notch competition. How Schwebby or MJ haven't won the USDGC yet I don't know.

I know my one SC tournament that I won I had a 7-8 stroke lead going into the last round over a field of 21. My rounds were only 949, 919, and 908. I personally think I do so well because before hand Alan Beaver played a good number of the holes with us .

/Moons South Carolina

/Looks at calendar... Still playing in same division

 

[RJRendleman]

location is a huge factor on what division to play...

i feel as if i can play advanced most anywhere except for where i am in charlotte...i have been averaged between 940-950 for my tournaments this year and im just in the top third of ma2

this years carolina clash is a good example

first for ma2 averaged 974
second for ma2 averaged 969

if feel like these are the averages for winners of advanced in many other areas

 

[yankees23]

I played a Ctier today and shot a 954 and 957. I finished third in Advanced. The open winner shot ten strokes better than I overall. Also Sarah Hokom was their and played open. I know she had me by one stroke in the first round. I am not sure what she shot in the second one though.

 

[atl scott]

When you are finishing top ten at Worlds, and are in the top ten of rated Ams; it's time to move up.

If the top 10 ams move up then there are suddenly a new top 10 ams. Are they supposed to move up now? opcorn:

 

[bergdawg]

Carolinas = bagger central.

 

[DiscLizard]

I don't think anyone should be in a rush to play pro. I know quite a few guys locally in Charlotte who went pro back when the Pro2 division was offered, when they were at the top of the advanced field. Now they can't compete at the pro level locally and they can't play AM1 either because Pro2 no longer exists.

 

[atl scott]

I posted this in the BG thread and realized it was probably more appropriate here. Enjoy.

When to go pro is a case by case decision that shouldn't be affected by the whining of losing ams or pros who want your cash in their division. Anyone who says otherwise can go suck a pickle.

 

[BionicRib]

Im not a math whiz, but isn't comparing ratings on different kinds of courses a bit unrealistic? I am not a ratings expert, but to compare round ratings on Charlottes Web vs West Park in Joliet Illinois for example would be ridiculous. Charlottes Web which is a much more difficult course would not have a large standard deviation, where as West Park would have a large standard deviation.......which would IMO skew those ratings.

I definitely see the point....and to answer your question, I would say the only way you're gonna get better is to play with the big dogs. Try it out and if you don't like it then move back down. As long as you are below 975 you can still play am even if you cash in open. I'm not sure what your rating is, but thats just my opinion.

 

[whiz]

While that is a good point Bionicrib, that is why I averaged the ratings for ALL B and C tier tournaments in the respective states during June-August 2011.

 

[whiz]

Also, none of the tournaments I posted used the Charlotte's Web layout or Renaissance Gold.

 

[The Hammer]

If the top 10 ams move up then there are suddenly a new top 10 ams. Are they supposed to move up now? opcorn:

Not nessecarily, but check out Whiz's record from last year. He killed it, yet he is still on the fence about moving up a year later. People probably think I'm an a-hole for saying this and that's fine. If he is still playing as an Am, I and many others would consider it sandbagging. I challenge someone to present a case where the title wouldn't be more appropriate. The dude is a solid golfer, and it is evident in his record. I think it's pretty clear he would be a competive pro. He may have to suffer with not winning a lot, but will definately be able to make some cash.

http://http://www.pdga.com/player_stats/51060/2011

 

[Pwingles]

I played a Ctier today and shot a 954 and 957. I finished third in Advanced. The open winner shot ten strokes better than I overall. Also Sarah Hokom was their and played open. I know she had me by one stroke in the first round. I am not sure what she shot in the second one though.

what were the results of the ole 2 step today? and did Jon bag intermediate today or did you guys finally shame him into moving up ?

- Shayn