2022 Las Vegas Challenge Feb 24-27

[DanJon]

Man, Eagle just gives up when he's not going to make top 5, or things aren't going his way.

He's never going to win Worlds or USDGC until he finds a way to overcome that.

 

[The Shide]

Man, Eagle just gives up when he's not going to make top 5, or things aren't going his way.

He's never going to win Worlds or USDGC until he finds a way to overcome that.

Agreed. We have to remember, though, he's not yet 25, so he is still "growing" from a maturity standpoint. Same could be said of other <25s on the tour. These youngins are growing up before our very eyes.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Man, Eagle just gives up when he's not going to make top 5, or things aren't going his way.

He's never going to win Worlds or USDGC until he finds a way to overcome that.

More and more touring players will occasionally exhibit this behavior (including skipping events and DNFing) once they get to the point financially where they can still live comfortably with lower finish positions in events where they've fallen out of contention for the win.

 

[Steve West]

Should your equipment be considered "out of play" when located in an OB area (a Hazard is technically inbounds)? For example, if I placed my bag OB shouldn't that be considered sufficiently out of play and not be penalized if my next throw rolled back and hit it in OB area? I realize the rule does not state that equipment is out of play when not inbounds but isn't this implied by the definitions of inbounds and not inbounds, i.e., OB?

...

No to all.

That would allow for players to build a protective wall of carts and open umbrellas an inch into OB.

 

[Hyzer Ale]

Man, Eagle just gives up when he's not going to make top 5, or things aren't going his way.

He's never going to win Worlds or USDGC until he finds a way to overcome that.

I think he was frustrated that he didn't have his forehand available for this tournament. I'll agree with you if this conutinues throughout the early part of the year.

 

[dehaas]

I'm not sure if the Hammes drop zone shot would've found the hazard if it hadn't hit his disc. KJ's shot right before looked like it had more juice, skipped before it got to Adam's tee shot, and didn't get hazard deep. It was lined up between the two hazards but if they extended into one giant hazard I think KJ would've been safe. No way of knowing for sure but I don't Adam's would've skipped that far.

Kinda strange, because I always think Drew is older than he really is. He's 25 I believe and will turn 26 this year? For some reason I always think he's more like upper 20's early 30's.

 

[Cgkdisc]

No to all.

That would allow for players to build a protective wall of carts and open umbrellas an inch into OB.

Other players can require a player to move their equipment farther into OB under current rules.

A problem with the current self-contact interference rule is it doesn't provide a "safe" place for a player to place their equipment to avoid a penalty upon contact. For example, it seems fairer if you only earned a penalty if your throw contacts any of your equipment located in front of your lie excluding your marker and discs thrown during your turn to throw. This would have handled Adam's situation without penalty, occasions when players are throwing provisionals and in possibly doubles when your throw contacts your partner's disc which may be a penalty but is unclear under current rule B.03A.

 

[Flick Maniac]

No to all.

That would allow for players to build a protective wall of carts and open umbrellas an inch into OB.

Agree.

Although I feel like that would fall under Competition Manual 3.03C1, wherein

Cheating: a willful attempt to circumvent the rules of play.

https://www.pdga.com/rules/competition-manual/303

And the TD can DQ the player for it.

Just like you could, within the rules, question every disc in another players bag and make them all illegal until subsequently deemed legal by an official. In this case I hope the TD would DQ that asshat also.

 

[mostlynorwegian]

Man, Eagle just gives up when he's not going to make top 5, or things aren't going his way.

He's never going to win Worlds or USDGC until he finds a way to overcome that.

But, first he's gonna have to overcome how irresponsible it was for him to injure himself in the first place by being silly. So. No reason to start a new season and to also end it by aggravating that. Glad he found a way to check out and start enjoying the round when it was apparent the competitive urge was beginning to get the best of him, and what he was capable of either mentally, or physically couldn't hang. There's nothing worse than watching someone clearly beat themselves up when it's not their day. Oh, right. He broke his hand a couple seasons ago because of this sort of gunk.

 

[Steve West]

..
Just like you could, within the rules, question every disc in another players bag and make them all illegal until subsequently deemed legal by an official. In this case I hope the TD would DQ that asshat also.

The word actually in the rule is "unless", not "until". Big difference.

 

[rocthecourse]

Man, Eagle just gives up when he's not going to make top 5, or things aren't going his way.

He's never going to win Worlds or USDGC until he finds a way to overcome that.

That 966 rated 4th round is Eagle's lowest rated round since mid 2018.

I believe there is some value in learning how to turn around a bad round.

But if Eagle is going to give up on rounds he needs to start putting on a show, I want to see him blast some long drives and go for the green on every hole.

 

[Flick Maniac]

The word actually in the rule is "unless", not "until". Big difference.

How so? I think the crux is rather "subsequently", i.e. the disc is illegal up to that point. Any throw with it will be punishable even if there really is nothing wrong with it. The questioning makes it de facto illegal.

A disc that is questioned by another player or an Official is illegal unless it is subsequently approved by the Director.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

The way I see it, a thrown disc lying in the fairway, OB area, or wherever, is a far cry from a bag, cart, seat, retriever, umbrella, hoodie, water bottle, etc.

The thrown disc is for all intents and purposes, no different than a stick that fell off a tree laying in the field of play. It basically becomes a temporary part of the course.

Maybe the rules should be rewritten to exempt "Any players' thrown discs that have come to rest" as equipment that qualifies for a penalty stroke for interference.

I don't see how skipping off a disc is any different than skipping off leaves, a rock, stick, etc. Within the context of the game, that disc is exactly where it's supposed to be: sitting where it came to rest as the result of a legal throw.

 

[The Shide]

Watched the video in question last night. So here are my thoughts.
So would one actually expect Adam to run up the fairway to pick up his OB disc? Who does that? The answer is, No one.
The disc is OB, out of bounds. No need to worry about it.
His thrown disc from the drop zone hitting his disc in the OB is an absolute fluke. Who would penalize him for that? The answer is, again, No one.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

It shouldn't matter if the thrown disc is OB or not.

Let's say a disc skips off an another disc sitting in the fairway. Does anyone deserve an interference or penalty? The answer is "no."

A disc's interaction with an object that's basically part of the course and/or OB, is just one of the myriad random chance elements that are inherently part of the game, like wind, rain, ice, strange rolls, etc.

It comes down to, "Is it reasonable for that object to be there, or not?"

If it's a disc, stick, rock, bird egg... yes.
If it's a bag, stool, cart... no.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

What if it had been a water bottle (or even a disc), accidentally left behind by a player on the previous card?

I'd say that's worthy of a penalty stroke for whomever left the object behind.

 

[uncle pennybags]

So how would a skip off a disc be any different than a spit out of a basket due to a disc? I wouldn't penalize anyone for the spit out.

 

[Steve West]

How so? I think the crux is rather "subsequently", i.e. the disc is illegal up to that point. Any throw with it will be punishable even if there really is nothing wrong with it. The questioning makes it de facto illegal.

"Unless" means that if the TD subsequently approves it, the disc was never illegal. A player who is confident of the legality of the discs they are throwing can keep throwing them. Then, at the end of the round go to the TD. The TD can say "this was always a legal disc".

"Until" would mean that the disc cannot be thrown during the time from when it is questioned to when the player tracks down a TD to get it approved. The TD would only be able to say "from now on, this disc is legal."

The first case (the current rule) does not give inordinate power to another player to prevent you from using your discs.

 

[Steve West]

...
Maybe the rules should be rewritten to exempt "Any players' thrown discs that have come to rest" as equipment that qualifies for a penalty stroke for interference.

...

Maybe they should. Maybe include discs still in flight. Maybe include minis.

 

[ru4por]

It shouldn't matter if the thrown disc is OB or not.

Let's say a disc skips off an another disc sitting in the fairway. Does anyone deserve an interference or penalty? The answer is "no."

A disc's interaction with an object that's basically part of the course and/or OB, is just one of the myriad random chance elements that are inherently part of the game, like wind, rain, ice, strange rolls, etc.

It comes down to, "Is it reasonable for that object to be there, or not?"

If it's a disc, stick, rock, bird egg... yes.
If it's a bag, stool, cart... no.

If a disc is considered equipment, so would a mini. Are penalized for someone hitting your mini?

**sorry, I did not see Steve's reply below.