A few days with Nikko...

[Three Putt]

Like sell a ton of stolen art stamped discs and undercut all retail outlets selling to anyone and everyone at wholesale? :gross: dude does love DG and has great ideas but hasnt done **** compared to innova/dc peeps in the big scheme.

I've probably met Sharkbite at some point, he's a St. Louis guy. The Daviar had this huge cult of golfers in St. Louis back in the day. We had a weird North County/South County split back in the day where disc golf had been pretty much a North County thing for 15 years. Hazelwood and Creve Coeur were both up North so that's where all the activity was. When Jefferson Barracks went in, there was this whole new group of South County golfers. The North County guys would laugh at Dave since we had all been around and knew who he was. The South County guys looked up to Dave like he was the God of disc golf. That was back when Gateway just made bags, before the Sabre was even a thing. McCormack still has a cult of guys who think he can do no wrong in the area. It's just a thing. I wouldn't waste any time trying to convince one of those guys anything different.

 

[davetherocketguy]

Like sell a ton of stolen art stamped discs and undercut all retail outlets selling to anyone and everyone at wholesale? :gross: dude does love DG and has great ideas but hasnt done **** compared to innova/dc peeps in the big scheme.

This is not the first time I've heard this. Probably like the 49th or 76th time or whatever it is. I've lost count.
:\

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Also dont bring Prince into this thread..... I mean?

 

[art_vandelay]

I was standing next to Nikko's newish girlfriend waiting to tee off at our weekly Sunday Nooner. I heard her say that he is moving back to St. Louis from California. Don't know anything more than that.

Dave has got to be one of the worst businessmen I've ever seen. He has succeeded in spite of himself it would seem. He is all over the place, promising this that and the other thing but then he forgets about it and it's on to the next thing. If you were ever to visit Gateway you would see that his personality permeates the place. It seems sloppy and unorganized and trying to get someone to help you is sort of a joke. But I keep buying Wizards because they are awesome.

 

[sscarmana]

I've only met Dave once our twice, but he seems like a good guy to me.

I love the going up to the Gateway store to score some unstamped premium plastic for dye jobs. The guys up there have always been friendly to me and have donated to Okthrowberfest when I have asked. Everything seems to be organized enough to find what you are looking for.

I haven't really been out of the St. Louis area for golf or disc shopping, so I don't have a frame of reference, but it's great what Dave and Gateway are doing for disc golf in the area.

 

[Vonbeezy1]

Edit

 

[davetherocketguy]

Dave has got to be one of the worst businessmen I've ever seen. He has succeeded in spite of himself it would seem. He is all over the place, promising this that and the other thing but then he forgets about it and it's on to the next thing. If you were ever to visit Gateway you would see that his personality permeates the place. It seems sloppy and unorganized and trying to get someone to help you is sort of a joke. But I keep buying Wizards because they are awesome.

And again...not the first time I've heard this. :\

 

[Sharkbite]

Like sell a ton of stolen art stamped discs and undercut all retail outlets selling to anyone and everyone at wholesale? :gross: dude does love DG and has great ideas but hasnt done **** compared to innova/dc peeps in the big scheme.

Innova is just as evil in there own way but I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you about Dave. People love to hate Dave for there own reasons. I wish they would have released that Champion stamp on the Wizard as it's the truly the BEST putter.

 

[Sharkbite]

While I should walk away from my laptop right now I cant help but think you don't really know anything about Dave. Has he released stamps of bands with out approval, ya but there are a lot of people that do that ****. He also has stopped doing it. It doesn't make it right but it certainly should not shadow what he has positively done. He also doesn't give wholesale rates to just anyone. He was installing courses, making bags and disk long before any off those little things you mentioned ever happened, which help grow the sport.

Has he had issues with help at his shop, ya. Its hard to find good help and lets face it not all disc golfers are the best at 9-5 jobs. Far to many are interested in extracurricular activities. He cant single handedly run a business, he has to have help and at times that hasn't worked out for different reasons. You should know the whole story on him before you decide to pass judgement, what he's done in the short time you've been playing is not an accurate representation of his accomplishments in disc golf.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Hows that gateway sponsorship working out?

Dave cant even mark the firmness correctly on discs. That simple detail alone tells you something.

 

[Vonbeezy1]

While I should walk away from my laptop right now I cant help but think you don't really know anything about Dave. Has he released stamps of bands with out approval, ya but there are a lot of people that do that ****. He also has stopped doing it. It doesn't make it right but it certainly should not shadow what he has positively done. He also doesn't give wholesale rates to just anyone. He was installing courses, making bags and disk long before any off those little things you mentioned ever happened, which help grow the sport.

Has he had issues with help at his shop, ya. Its hard to find good help and lets face it not all disc golfers are the best at 9-5 jobs. Far to many are interested in extracurricular activities. He cant single handedly run a business, he has to have help and at times that hasn't worked out for different reasons. You should know the whole story on him before you decide to pass judgement, what he's done in the short time you've been playing is not an accurate representation of his accomplishments in disc golf.

I think you are just making Dave's reputation worse

 

[elmexdela]

Hows that gateway sponsorship working out?


Dave cant even mark the firmness correctly on discs. That simple detail alone tells you something.

tells us what

 

[Three Putt]

Geepers! What in the...

Full disclosure: I've known Dave for...over 20 years, anyway. I have not seen him in person for about 8 or 9 years, though. In the 90's I dealt directly with him through disc golf. There was a time when he was my least favorite person in disc golf. I can write all day long about problems I have had with Dave and do a real hatchet job on him. Water under the bridge. I got over all that.

Reflecting on things, this kinda is my takeaway. Dave is a guy. A flawed guy who succeeds sometimes and fails sometimes. There is a myth of Dave (that he promotes) that he is this great unsung disc golf contributor. It would be true if he was a leader and was working toward promoting disc golf as his passion. He's not a leader, though. He's a guy. He mostly thinks about what is good for him. He doesn't have a big vision of disc golf or anything, he has the vision of what will keep Gateway in business. It kinda overlaps with and can be mistaken for leadership in disc golf, but it's not. It's a guy running a disc golf business.

That makes him a mixed bag. He's has put in some very good courses. Foundation Park is a gem that is overlooked. He makes Wizards. He certainly has made contributions to disc golf. He has also done things that damaged disc golf. He's a guy. We can put him on a pedestal for what he has done right and then knock him down for what he has done wrong, or we can decide he is just a guy and let it go.

 

[DanJon]

While I should walk away from my laptop right now I cant help but think you don't really know anything about Dave. Has he released stamps of bands with out approval, ya but there are a lot of people that do that ****. He also has stopped doing it. It doesn't make it right but it certainly should not shadow what he has positively done. He also doesn't give wholesale rates to just anyone. He was installing courses, making bags and disk long before any off those little things you mentioned ever happened, which help grow the sport.

Has he had issues with help at his shop, ya. Its hard to find good help and lets face it not all disc golfers are the best at 9-5 jobs. Far to many are interested in extracurricular activities. He cant single handedly run a business, he has to have help and at times that hasn't worked out for different reasons. You should know the whole story on him before you decide to pass judgement, what he's done in the short time you've been playing is not an accurate representation of his accomplishments in disc golf.

Dude he has Star Wars and Nike images stamped on current run Wizards.

 

[Three Putt]

...and if he gets caught, it's on him. No real harm to disc golf if he does. If GDS went up in flames he would sell the Wizard mold to Discraft. They have compatible equipment; there were Z Sabres and Demons at one point that Dave had run at Discraft. Dave and Jim Kenner get along, it would make sense. Disc golf would just go on.

 

[davetherocketguy]

...and let it go.

You are seriously asking DGCR to "let it go"?

Quit the optimist you are lol

 

[Three Putt]

You are seriously asking DGCR to "let it go"?

Quit the optimist you are lol

Man, it used to eat me up. I HATED the guy. I had my reasons. I've probably posted too many of the details why. I used to hate throwing Wizards, admitting that he did something right. I just couldn't stand the guy.

I ran into him at an event and watched him do his thing, watched the tension with the guys who hated him like me, seeing how that group of St. Louis golfers would always have him as a wedge...I started to realize that we wanted him to be something he couldn't be. He just doesn't have the character to be a leader.

St. Louis when I was there had Bob Waidmann, Bob just does his thing, promotes disc golf and never makes an enemy. Ray Vuichard always stepped up. He would always say he was done being a Club officer, then the Club would go to Hell and there Ray was. Guys like that got no fanfare, but they held that scene together. Dave just couldn't be like them. It's not who he is. I almost felt bad for him, since he will never live up to what people want him to be. I just let it go.

My life is disc golf is a lot happier now. Dave is just a guy. I don't have the time or energy to let him upset me anymore. It's all in the past. The disc golf scene in St. Louis in the 90's was pretty ugly, but we survived. It's better now. All's well that ends well.

 

[Streets]

Dave made the Wizard. That's really all I need to know about him.

 

[DanJon]

...and if he gets caught, it's on him. No real harm to disc golf if he does. If GDS went up in flames he would sell the Wizard mold to Discraft. They have compatible equipment; there were Z Sabres and Demons at one point that Dave had run at Discraft. Dave and Jim Kenner get along, it would make sense. Disc golf would just go on.

What do you think the going rate is on the Wizard mold?

 

[Three Putt]

More money than I have?