? ACE ? Yes or No?

[CwAlbino]

That's a variation called "full Cali". Nothing wrong with it, but its not the way its played competitively in leagues here as the players feel it gives the Cali player too much leverage. Its also apparently not the way they do it where the OP lives.



I think the moral to this story is that doubles is a fun format that you can bake in a lot of different flavors. None of them particularly wrong.

hrm, read it wrong then. I think it definitely is a disadvantage to the person then, and they should never be made to pay twice since they don't even get the same amount of throws as other teams. There are many botched upshots or putts that I would much rather have a partner to back me up on, than one good ace. I personally would not even use my extra shot off the tee most of the time. I would save it for a putt or approach (if I could do this)

 

[Roc1Time]

Agreed for the most part

 

[XxInnovaxX]

Playing Cali means you get two shots. An Ace is an Ace whether he got it on the first or second shot. Playing Cali is no advantage. You get two shots, you make your choice. The one you choose counts.
Why all the Ace rules? It's not like it was a mulligan.
If the player throws a shot that will count, it's an Ace.
Why all the special Ace rules??
If the shot goes on a scorecard, it's an ACE!!

not an advantage?!?!?! me personally i would rather play cali than have a partner anytime!!....just like someone else posted, if your a decent enough player it is DEFINITELY an advantage, bc you dont have the chance of needing your "mediocre" partner to bail you out....i would rather rely on my own personal skills than someone elses...but thats just me

 

[StymieDidIt]

not an advantage?!?!?! me personally i would rather play cali than have a partner anytime!!....just like someone else posted, if your a decent enough player it is DEFINITELY an advantage, bc you dont have the chance of needing your "mediocre" partner to bail you out....i would rather rely on my own personal skills than someone elses...but thats just me

Am I not understanding this correctly? I seems too easy. If I do understand correctly, then I agree with you entirely that it's an advantage for the cali player. Two shots for the same person, right? It's like a free warmup. You can change styles, discs, whatever... if the first shot doesn't work. If you had a partner, you could still make changes on approach or line of flight, but not the "feel" of how you release the disc. I hope I'm not missing the point here and sounding really stupid.

 

[XxInnovaxX]

Am I not understanding this correctly? I seems too easy. If I do understand correctly, then I agree with you entirely that it's an advantage for the cali player. Two shots for the same person, right? It's like a free warmup. You can change styles, discs, whatever... if the first shot doesn't work. If you had a partner, you could still make changes on approach or line of flight, but not the "feel" of how you release the disc. I hope I'm not missing the point here and sounding really stupid.

no youve got it ......if you are the "cali" you get ONE extra shot per hole... say you have a bad drive and hit the first tree you come to, you just tell everyone you want your second shot now, and then you get to re-tee...and if you have a good drive, you can use the 2nd shot on your approach or putt...its whatever you decide.

 

[cc0049]

Same thing happens when you have a partner that parks the hole and then you get to just take an ace run. That's why partners should always split the ace pot in a doubles round. It's no different when you are callie. You get the money, but the ace definitely has an asterik by it. I wouldn't have people sign my disc for that...especially not you if you'd write "2nd shot" by it.

the half ace-fund sounds more fair than anything to me...thats not a bad idea...although im sure if i was the guy that hit it i would want the whole thing...another example would be though, what if its a short, open, 150' hole that the guy parks and then decides to take his second shot and aces it....how fair would that be?

 

[CaptainAnhyzer]

Pay the man. Since he is his own partner and that's how the rules go... it's an ace.
DSCJNKY

Second this.

 

[XxInnovaxX]

Same thing happens when you have a partner that parks the hole and then you get to just take an ace run. That's why partners should always split the ace pot in a doubles round. It's no different when you are callie. You get the money, but the ace definitely has an asterik by it. I wouldn't have people sign my disc for that...especially not you if you'd write "2nd shot" by it.

ah cmon...you gotta give the guy a little bit of a hard time.....he just hit an ace....and that way, when someone sees that on his disc, it starts off the whole story...

 

[ERicJ]

Here's the way I see it (and the way we've always done it here):

In a Doubles format each player pays a set entry fee just to get in the event. On top of that (as a side bet) each player pays a set fee to get in the ACE POT (a side bet). During the round each player gets 18 chances at the SIDE BET $$$. It's not fair to let one player (even if that player is the odd man out) get extra throws at the SIDE BET $$$. Sure the odd man out can throw another tee shot as provided by the ODD MAN OUT DOUBLES RULE and try for a 1 on the scorecard, but not to collect the SIDE BET $$$ (which each paying player gets a set number of chances at).

As we have gotten more players here, and several more opportunities to play doubles rounds at different times than the usual Wednesday afternoon Doubles or Second Sunday Doubles, there is a growing sentiment to allow the ODD MAN OUT to pay double for getting into the ACE POT, thus allowing the player double the opportunities to try for the ACE POT. This seems more fair than the other method.

Great logic there John. And it works very well if playing "Full Cali" where the odd man out gets two shots from every lie. As someone else said that's the best argument yet for not paying out a "second shot ace" (if the player only bought in to the ace pot once).

But if you're playing what seems to be the more traditional Cali rules where the odd man out only gets one extra shot per hole, then it's really not fair to him to charge double since he will likely not get twice the number of ace run shots. At least not if he's trying for the best score.

 

[ERicJ]

And speaking of Cali rules... anyone every play it something like this:

• Pro & Advanced Cali players get one extra throw per hole to be used on any throw they want, i.e. drive, upshot, or putt.
• Intermediate players get two extra throws per hole to used on any shots they want, but limited to two total shots per lie, i.e. you can not save both extra shots to the end to get three chances to putt.
• Rec & Novice players get three extra throws per hole, same restrictions as Intermediate.

The extra shots are played best-shot style where you have the option to play from the best one just like the other doubles teams.

Also, technically all AM age protected divisions are "Advanced" divisions, but for the purpose of this you could group MM1 with Pro/Advanced-1 extra shot, MG1 with Intermediate-2 extra shots, and MS1 with Rec/Novice-3 extra shots.

 

[XxInnovaxX]

And speaking of Cali rules... anyone every play it something like this:

• Pro & Advanced Cali players get one extra throw per hole to be used on any throw they want, i.e. drive, upshot, or putt.
• Intermediate players get two extra throws per hole to used on any shots they want, but limited to two total shots per lie, i.e. you can not save both extra shots to the end to get three chances to putt.
• Rec & Novice players get three extra throws per hole, same restrictions as Intermediate.

The extra shots are played best-shot style where you have the option to play from the best one just like the other doubles teams.

Also, technically all AM age protected divisions are "Advanced" divisions, but for the purpose of this you could group MM1 with Pro/Advanced-1 extra shot, MG1 with Intermediate-2 extra shots, and MS1 with Rec/Novice-3 extra shots.

never heard of that...but its a great idea, it would def make it a lot easier on a rec-int player, or at least more fair

 

[John Rock]

It's been my experience that when divisions come into play, some players will exploit the system and milk it for all they can. Example: A local player only plays a few pdga events and carries a rather low rating. All other local players know this player can easily shoot scores much better than what his rating shows, yet since divisions are involved this player has the unfair advantage of dominating a lower division (always claiming his rating says he can), thus getting extra throws in the method you propose. If players don't act this way in your area, that's great. But my experience (20+ years of organizing local minis) proves otherwise. I have pretty much stopped doing anything that involves divisional play on a local level because I am very disgusted with players attitudes about divisions. It seems to me that many players will not advance to the next level when they know they are dominating a certain level. The physical rewards may be limited in the lesser divisions, but the perceived prestige of being first in a division keeps some from realizing where they truly belong.

 

[atassac66]

ACE

It is an ace. Give hime the money.

 

[killjohn]

Man, if I hit an ACE I would be stoked! If it is in the rules that you get to throw, then why would it not count. The money and they score are a reward for a great throw, and an ace is a great throw.

 

[XxInnovaxX]

It's been my experience that when divisions come into play, some players will exploit the system and milk it for all they can. Example: A local player only plays a few pdga events and carries a rather low rating. All other local players know this player can easily shoot scores much better than what his rating shows, yet since divisions are involved this player has the unfair advantage of dominating a lower division (always claiming his rating says he can), thus getting extra throws in the method you propose. If players don't act this way in your area, that's great. But my experience (20+ years of organizing local minis) proves otherwise. I have pretty much stopped doing anything that involves divisional play on a local level because I am very disgusted with players attitudes about divisions. It seems to me that many players will not advance to the next level when they know they are dominating a certain level. The physical rewards may be limited in the lesser divisions, but the perceived prestige of being first in a division keeps some from realizing where they truly belong.

thats why you make them move up....if nothing else, tell everyone after you have won 3 adv/am div minis then you have to move up to open....if they play open a couple weeks and get stomped, you might consider letting them come back to adv/am...most people just need that little nudge to realize that they can hang with the open guys...theyre just too scared to try it themselves....

here recently i was playing adv and we have the 3-win rule...well the 1st week i won 1st, the 2nd week i got 2nd....and then during the next week i went and played with a couple of the open guys and i beat them...they told me i should be playing open, and weren't gonna allow me to play adv/am...well turns out the next two weeks after that ive cashed in open!! i didnt get first, but i came close...and just to think, before that i thought it would be like jumping into a shark pit and i wouldnt stand a chance....now all im worried about is getting first in open next week!!