how many people is too many?

[RippinDs]

I have held some of the following philosophy:


I personally would encourage event directors to migrate to online sign up services - especially as the local event culture is producing "full" events.
Why? The inventory (entries) is all in one place, first come, first serve, collected, organized, verified. Many have the ticker that show how many left.
When it sells out - celebrate it! Share the news... blast it on facebook! you are already building steam for the next time, or the next event. A good event director then has a nearby event in mind to refer players to that ask after its too late, even if its a little drive.

With online sign up services:
When they are gone, they are gone. Too bad. They likely ticked down one at a time. I know in our area, if you watch - even the events that fill - usually are dropping availability 2-3 spots per day during the sign up period, not in massive batches like you might think. Weekend, weekday - same rate... strange.

Then they're gone. Maybe next year. Less face to face awkward conversations where an event director caves... and lets in another over his previous cap.

Stick to the number, stick to the plan, execute well.

I totally agree with this mentality and think that this is where the tournament side of disc golf is headed and needs to be headed. It is hard to complain about not being able to play in a tournament when registration has been up for two months and you waited until the last minute. I understand people may not know whether they can play in an event a month or couple weeks down the road, but you can always back out and hopefully the TD will be willing to work with you on that, and give you the registration money back.

I think it is unfair to the players who register way early and are looking forward to playing a particular tournament, when the TD decides to let in extra people last minute and have too many people playing. I don't think, from a TD perspective, that making a handful of last minute registering players happy, is worth annoying the players who registered a head of time, with crowded cards and slow speed of play.

 

[Indiana574]

I haven't played in a tournament but there's a group of 4 of us that go every Tuesday an four is perfect sometimes we have 5 if are buddy's son is home from colleage we all move pretty quick tho I would never wanna play in a group bigger then 5

 

[Matt B.]

When it comes to tournaments, how do you feel about a player cap? are 5 -somes ok? how about 5-somes plus ghost holes to accommodate all the players? for c and b tiers should everyone be allowed to play that wants to, or should there be a strict cap at 4 players per hole?


asking to gauge general opinion, as recently had a friend complain to me about a TD making a strict player cap at a tournament that filled up very very fast, while seeing another friend not fully enjoy another tournament due to no player cap and 5+ hour rounds. as a TD in the past I worked to try and allow as many players as would possibly fit, but now think that having a stricter player cap is better- basically trying to offer the best possible experience to the players vs a lesser experience for more players.

IMO, 4-somes only in B-tiers and up, and 2 ghost groups max. That lets some extra people in, but should not adversely affect the people who signed up on time. C-tiers and less formal events I see it as looser. Never like 5-somes though.

 

[JC17393]

Something worth noting regarding playing group size...not that anyone in this thread has brought it up, but the PDGA rules forbid any more than five in a playing group. However, the second half of that rule (Competition Manual section 1.6 E) reads "...[groups] should be limited to four players whenever possible."

The rule didn't used to say that, but it does now. Maybe it's coincidence, but I've seen far more tournaments reduce their field from 90 to 72 since that wording entered the rule book/competition manual. It's a very good trend, IMO.

 

[Matt B.]

I play at a very quick pace, helps me get in a rhythm. With only 30 to a tourney you can do 2 some and have 2 hour rounds easily.

*BOGGLE*

 

[coupe]

Twosomes are not really recommended unless there are only 2 players in the division or perhaps it's the last round of an event and two players at the bottom of a bigger division are out of contention. Even then, better to have at least three in a group so you have the minimum number needed to make rules calls.

Assuming we're talking about PDGA-sanctioned tournaments, since when were groups of less than three without an accompanying official permitted?

 

[Cgkdisc]

Since 1999 Worlds when threesomes were used for the whole event. In some cases, twosomes were approved for the bottom two in a division. And twosomes have always been acceptable but not desired when there are only two in a division.

 

[coupe]

Since 1999 Worlds when threesomes were used for the whole event. In some cases, twosomes were approved for the bottom two in a division. And twosomes have always been acceptable but not desired when there are only two in a division.

Uh ... PDGA Competition manual, 1.6 Grouping and Sectioning:


D. To promote fairness, groups shall not be less than three players, except under extenuating circumstances, as deemed necessary by the Tournament Director. In cases where fewer than three players are required to play together, an official is required to accompany the group and may play as long as this does not interfere with the competing players.[/quote]

 

[Halcón]

Stick to the number, stick to the plan, execute well.

Love it. Both tourneys I've played in have had 90 players, after "capping" at 72. It's ridiculous. Get your butt in gear and sign up. You don't make it in, tough rocks.

And both tourneys had start times that were more than 30 minutes late because of all the late sign-ups and stragglers. Get there early, and be on time for the meeting. We ain't got all day to start this tourney.

Because of the length of time needed for tourneys, I'm considering quitting tourneys all together. 10 hours in one day dedicated to disc golf is just not worth it in my book.

 

[ejvogie]

Ghost holes are an abomination.

 

[smyith]

depends on course.
Long Course/Holes - 4somes
Short Course/Holes - 5somes

its more about time management. if a 5some per hole is likely to cause the tournament to run late, then dont do it.
personally would prefer that 4some is the max always no matter what, but it doesnt make or break a tournament for me. also if you are in an area where it is more common, you dont run into the "4 and walk" problem as much (unless its a newer player).

whats worse imo, is when you have a full tournament and the TD lets in 1 or 2 more people and then you have a couple of groups out there with a 5some and the rest with 4some...never ever works out and i personally avoid the TDs that do that.

Love it. Both tourneys I've played in have had 90 players, after "capping" at 72. It's ridiculous. Get your butt in gear and sign up. You don't make it in, tough rocks.

And both tourneys had start times that were more than 30 minutes late because of all the late sign-ups and stragglers. Get there early, and be on time for the meeting. We ain't got all day to start this tourney.

Because of the length of time needed for tourneys, I'm considering quitting tourneys all together. 10 hours in one day dedicated to disc golf is just not worth it in my book.

10 hours!!!!! holy cow! thats just piss poor TDs right there. i can understand a 10hour day if it is on the best courses around but still, 5pm and you should be getting ready to leave/spending your am cash

and honestly, i would ask for my money back if a TD capped it at 72 then decided on the fly to add 18 players.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Uh ... PDGA Competition manual, 1.6 Grouping and Sectioning:


D. To promote fairness, groups shall not be less than three players, except under extenuating circumstances, as deemed necessary by the Tournament Director. In cases where fewer than three players are required to play together, an official is required to accompany the group and may play as long as this does not interfere with the competing players.

Quote it all you want. I'm telling you the reality of what's accepted in the field by PDGA officials and what they would support should a TD need to do the same. See the previous statement about extenuating circumstances when an official or marker is not available to go with a twosome.

 

[joshmo65]

I have no problem with 5 somes. In fact, I much, much, much prefer 5 somes to 3 somes. With 3 people to a card, there is too many holes in the system where a foot fault has to be seconded, but one guy threw on the other side of the fairway so he didn't see it, or group consensus calls where 1 guys says yes and the other says no. Then what?

 

[Harrishabitat]

Quote it all you want. I'm telling you the reality of what's accepted in the field by PDGA officials and what they would support should a TD need to do the same. See the previous statement about extenuating circumstances when an official or marker is not available to go with a twosome.

Please explain to me if the rule is written to say "required" that is some situations it's not required? And if that is the case, why the hell would the rule say "required" :wall:

 

[JC17393]

I have no problem with 5 somes. In fact, I much, much, much prefer 5 somes to 3 somes. With 3 people to a card, there is too many holes in the system where a foot fault has to be seconded, but one guy threw on the other side of the fairway so he didn't see it, or group consensus calls where 1 guys says yes and the other says no. Then what?

The third guy gets his say? Group consensus in a threesome would have three votes. Impossible to have a tie when there are three votes. That's why three is the minimum required in a group, so you don't have one yes and one no and that's it. If the concern is tiebreaking, then foursomes would be the potentially problematic grouping.

As for the foot faulting, call a courtesy violation on the wandering player who's across the fairway from the thrower. The rule book says that players should watch each other's throws to ensure compliance with the rules. If you can't do that from across the fairway, you shouldn't be across the fairway.

Other thing to keep in mind is that a second is only required if there's a penalty. If there's a penalty, that would mean the player had been warned once already during the round. If the player had been warned and he was still struggling with compliance with his subsequent throws, it's on the other players in the group to observe and make the calls...even if that means you have to tell the other guy to stay close and watch rather than wander off.

 

[JC17393]

Please explain to me if the rule is written to say "required" that is some situations it's not required? And if that is the case, why the hell would the rule say "required" :wall:

Extenuating circumstances usually implies situations for which following the letter of the rule is difficult and/or impractical. In a situation where you are left with a twosome and no free bodies to act as an official for them, what should be done?

All Chuck has said is that in situations like that, if the group meets particular criteria, the last resort of sending them out as a twosome has been done and been deemed acceptable by the PDGA (i.e. the TD didn't get reprimanded for it). Doesn't mean that the rule is invalid or is free to be ignored going forward...just that there are occasional exceptions.

 

[ScottyLove]

Almost every tournament in these parts is capped at 90, so 5-some is the norm and works with no issues. In fact, I find it odd when I'm in a foursome these day. We've added 2 extra holes before to get up to 100, but at some point you have to turn folks away. The Disc Golf Monkey Tour in 2013 averaged 94 players per event I think... and I never heard any complaining. Great payouts probably help quite a bit too!

 

[Harrishabitat]

Extenuating circumstances usually implies situations for which following the letter of the rule is difficult and/or impractical. In a situation where you are left with a twosome and no free bodies to act as an official for them, what should be done?

All Chuck has said is that in situations like that, if the group meets particular criteria, the last resort of sending them out as a twosome has been done and been deemed acceptable by the PDGA (i.e. the TD didn't get reprimanded for it). Doesn't mean that the rule is invalid or is free to be ignored going forward...just that there are occasional exceptions.

Not trying to start an argument...but there should never be a situation where a twosome group would need to go out...unless there were only two people in the tournament.

 

[biscoe]

It's always better to say "Sorry, the event is full" instead of punishing everyone else that signed up in time.

winner winner chicken dinner!

i hate fivesomes.

 

[joshmo65]

The third guy gets his say? Group consensus in a threesome would have three votes. Impossible to have a tie when there are three votes. That's why three is the minimum required in a group, so you don't have one yes and one no and that's it. If the concern is tiebreaking, then foursomes would be the potentially problematic grouping.

As for the foot faulting, call a courtesy violation on the wandering player who's across the fairway from the thrower. The rule book says that players should watch each other's throws to ensure compliance with the rules. If you can't do that from across the fairway, you shouldn't be across the fairway.

Other thing to keep in mind is that a second is only required if there's a penalty. If there's a penalty, that would mean the player had been warned once already during the round. If the player had been warned and he was still struggling with compliance with his subsequent throws, it's on the other players in the group to observe and make the calls...even if that means you have to tell the other guy to stay close and watch rather than wander off.

I think it would be ridiculous to give out courtesy warnings every time a guy walked to his disc on the other side of the fairway from the thrower.