Td woes, exclusions from tournaments

[Smigles]

So we ran the 11th edition of our tournament this year. It is the opening tournament of the swiss tour but played in germany, right over the border. It is very popular and filled up within 9 hours.

Some swiss players did not get a spot because of big international interest. We are the only tournament (in the swiss tour) with such problems.

Now they demanded us to kick international players to make room for swiss ones. The event being a swiss tour event and swiss playrs should be able to play it. When i look over the border to germany or france i notice that they dont even let you sign up for their country championships if you dont have the nationality.

BUT then i checked the pdga rulebook to see what possibilities we actually have and was surprised to see that it says that you can not exclude players from your event based on nationality (or religion etc)at all! Does that mean that half of europe had that wrong for a long time?

Ps: i also dont see wildcards anywhere in the rules either. Are they regulated?

 

[biscoe]

the pdga will (generally) let you do what you want as long as everyone knows in advance.

imo you should change your policy for next year and suck it up for this year and let the registered people play rather than kick out players who have done nothing wrong to make room for players who were too slack to register in time.

the idea that players from switzerland believe players from other countries should be excluded from an event that is not even held in switzerland is somewhat absurd imo.

 

[Smigles]

the idea that players from switzerland believe players from other countries should be excluded from an event that is not even held in switzerland is somewhat absurd imo.


Well what would you say if mcbeth cant play the us championship cause the event filled up with mexicans too fast? ^^

And the event is allready over. We did not kick anybody. I just want to know for the future what possibilities there are and what experiences people have made.

 

[Cgkdisc]

The way to "fairly" handle exclusivity for your event is to make it a qualifier like the USDGC. One of the qualifications could be X number of slots for Swiss players rated above a certain level in each division.

 

[biscoe]

Well what would you say if mcbeth cant play the us championship cause the event filled up with mexicans too fast? ^^

that would be his problem for not registering more quickly- i have played many events and run many events- i have zero sympathy for players who don't get into events when the registration info is readily available to them.

my suggestion to the Swiss Tour would be to hold events exclusively in Switzerland if they want to exclude players from other nations.

 

[JC17393]

If it's a tournament that fills quickly every year like it did this year, perhaps putting a cap on foreign entry is a solution workable for all? For example if you allow a maximum of 90 players in total, 60 of those spots are initially reserved for Swiss players (or 70 or 80, whatever works best). Then if they are not filled by a certain date, they become open to anyone.

This tends to be the way some tournaments Stateside have to set up registration, except it's usually a reserved number of Pro spots because it tends to be the Ams that are all over hitting registration as soon as it opens. Rather than end up with a tiny Pro field just because the Ams have faster trigger fingers, the reserved spots assure that the Pros have a better chance to have a decent sized field of players.

 

[Smigles]

Biscoe: where the event was held does not matter. You seem to have your own issues that have little to do with my question.

Jc: thats what we were thinking too. We just did not find anything in the rules about how to do so exactly. The fact that the swiss federation rulework about those situations isnt clear either means lots of work till next year^^ if the federation wants to guarantee spots to all swiss players that want to play, they have to redo their rules too.

 

[JC17393]

Biscoe: where the event was held does not matter. You seem to have your own issues that have little to do with my question.

Jc: thats what we were thinking too. We just did not find anything in the rules about how to do so exactly. The fact that the swiss federation rulework about those situations isnt clear either means lots of work till next year^^ if the federation wants to guarantee spots to all swiss players that want to play, they have to redo their rules too.

Guess it depends on what the Swiss rules are, but the PDGA rules allow TDs to limit divisions (reserve spots, not hold particular divisions, etc) all they want as long as it is communicated in advance (Competition Manual Section 2.1 J).

There is also a provision in Competition Manual section 1.1 A that states that with advanced approval from the Tour Manager, players otherwise eligible to compete could be restricted from a division or event. I would think that limited eligibility by nationality is something that could be pre-approved by the Tour Manager if desired.

 

[DavidSauls]

You could probably get a waiver from the PDGA to restrict registration geographically, or at least reserve a certain number of spots.

The wisdom of doing so is questionable. If the Swiss events are restricted to Swiss players, will other countries want to do the same? Or perhaps exclude Swiss players? There's an argument for doing so in a single national championship, perhaps, but a tour?

If it filled in 9 hours, I'm with the others who think those who missed and are complaining are whiners. They're out only because they didn't register promptly, not because of anyone else.

The Earlewood Classic fills in minutes, and missing it can be a matter of a bad internet connection, an interruption, or just failure to type fast enough. It is our first event of the year, at which are crowned the state series champions from the previous year. So it was decided to allow those champions an advanced registration. If the Swiss tour has some sort of points competition, and missing the first event jeopardizes a player's chances, perhaps something like this, for the top finishes from the previous year, would work.

Whatever you do, don't change the rules and kick out people who have already registered. A terrible idea.

 

[DavidSauls]

....But if that's the way you want to go, you could probably get PDGA approval to make it an invitational, and make the qualification being having played a certain number of Swiss tour events the previous year. Open registration to them for a certain period; after which, open any remaining spots on a first-come basis. This wouldn't lock out the people from other nations, but would allow the Swiss---at least, the Swiss tour regulars---first shot. And, if this event has such demand to get in, it would make the other Swiss tour events more enticing to play.

 

[ChrisKramer]

This looks more like a generic anti-discrimination statement. These kinds of disclaimers are all but invisible to most of us in the US as they are in practically every document of rules/regulations/laws written after 1964.
A comparable situation over here would be an ("insert state name here) series event" being held in a neighboring state. Hopefully the TD along with the state coordinators involved will have worked this out in advance.

 

[Smigles]

....But if that's the way you want to go, you could probably get PDGA approval to make it an invitational, and make the qualification being having played a certain number of Swiss tour events the previous year. Open registration to them for a certain period; after which, open any remaining spots on a first-come basis. This wouldn't lock out the people from other nations, but would allow the Swiss---at least, the Swiss tour regulars---first shot. And, if this event has such demand to get in, it would make the other Swiss tour events more enticing to play.

Good ideas. I'll pass them on at the next meeting. About the other swiss tour events: unfortunately we have little control over them. Each is organised by a different club and the federation does not care much about quality

the wisdom of doing so is questionable. If the Swiss events are restricted to Swiss players, will other countries want to do the same? Or perhaps exclude Swiss players?

I only play for 4 years and not much international yet. But i know that only french ppl can play thre french championship. And the german tour is so popular that they make it invite only and they only invite germans. And only the good ones in their cathegories.

 

[Smigles]

This looks more like a generic anti-discrimination statement.

Hopefully the TD along with the state coordinators involved will have worked this out in advance.

Yes we thought too that its a general statement. We just could not find anything else in the rulework about nationalities.

Yeah unfortunately not. We just got bitched at by the people who could not play. I am pushing in the federation for a solution for next year.

 

[DavidSauls]

Yes we thought too that its a general statement. We just could not find anything else in the rulework about nationalities.

Yeah unfortunately not. We just got bitched at by the people who could not play. I am pushing in the federation for a solution for next year.

Ideally, the solution involves more tournaments to meet the demand, or reconfiguring this tournament to hold more people.

 

[Smigles]

Ideally, the solution involves more tournaments to meet the demand, or reconfiguring this tournament to hold more people.

We allready increased the hole number to 22 over the years. We considered doing 5 people flights but i doubt that we could play two rounds a day then. Rounds allready take 3.5 - 4 hours.

 

[DavidSauls]

Well, that's why I said "ideally". Because it's not always possible. At Earlewood we went to 20 holes, 5 per group (because we do have the time), and that's about it.

Some options are multiple courses for a single event; multiple weekends (Pro & Am), and staggered start (instead of shotgun start). Sometimes, none of these are possible.

Perhaps someone can run another tournament nearby, the same weekend, to siphon of some of the surplus.

At any rate, it's a good problem to have. At least, better than not having enough people.

 

[Smigles]

Unfortunately, DG is still pretty unknown in the area. We have the only course in the region, we are the only club, and the extra holes are only temporary.

But yeah, it's more of a luxury to have than a problem. We are happy that it is this way around. It's just tough to make the decision who can play and whoever you pick, the others will be unhappy.

 

[steadyrockabilly]

Reserve plenty of wild-cards for the registration face of the tourney. Thats the traditional way of ensuring that the locals get to play.

Closing the tour for "nationals" only is a terrible idea! More players traveling to more tourneys is what we want if we want to improve the european tour! that goes for Germany and France too obviously!

 

[kerplunk]

I think you should hold a small number of spots for international players, maybe 30, and then open registration to Swiss players 2 weeks before opening general registration. This way you give an advantage to Swiss players but still make sure the tourney can fill with internationals if enough Swiss don't sign up.