The Inevitable 2022 Pros Switching Sponsors Thread

[Flick Maniac]

They probably don't need to remake anything other than a stamp if I understand the situation correctly.

Well they did send them to be (re-?)approved by the Pdga. However, I dont really claim to understand the approval process as far as renaming or minor tweaks to the molds go.

 

[BuiltTooLong]

I hope this isn't more of the previous "Innova doesn't take care of FPO champs" stuff. Their parting with Val still leaves a bad aftertaste.

The bad taste to me is having a major company in the sport failing to adequately support their FPO players.

Slapping a #respectHERgame on social media is like an empty platitude without actually supporting and promoting FPO where it matters.

That said, I have no idea how much has changed since Val left, and what prompted Des to switch to Mint. As I said earlier, could be a Austin/Texas thing.

Players switch sponsors all the time, so I don't think it necessarily has to do with sexism. This instance may have to do more with ageism.

Let's say Innova did throw a bunch of cash and marketing toward Val, so she felt respected, and wouldn't leave for Discraft. Then a year later, she completely retires from playing competitive golf. Did they see the return on investment?

 

[BillFleming]

But just how much money can the companies pay the players?
We know that Lat64 had a profit of $3,5 million in 2020 and we also know that they signed Kristin for $125000 a year.
So they can have a few players at that cost level or even more.

But are they paying them equally? Females get paid less than the males.

When Paul and Paige got signed by Discraft, Paul let everyone know he was making $1 Million for 4 years. Paige would only say she was making 6 figures (which is anywhere between 100,00 and 999,999 - I'm guessing she was on the low end of that). Yet both were 5x Worlds Champs and on the top of their game.

Paul got a new contract for $10 million for 10 years.....what did Paige get (I don't know, but I'm guessing nowhere near that amount)?

Okay, Paul does do more for the sport....he's got his foundation, he's created courses in another country. He's become an ambassador for the sport. But that is more once he got the 10 million dollar contract. He's got extra spending money to do those things.

Yes, we finally have some tournament sponsors putting up matching purses for the MPO and FPO divisions....but that isn't commonplace - and I don't think sponsor contracts are equal for males and females.

 

[BuiltTooLong]

Every player and smaller disc company saw what happened to Discraft when they took a chance and gave McBeth a big contract. .
I think many players and companies are taking the gamble. . will everybody survive, probably not.

Maybe Innova is SO big that they don´t need yo pay big money for players?
Smaller companies need a big name to get heard and seen.

I just wonder how much money the companies can throw at players before they get into trouble

Let's say Ricky leaves Innova, they still have tons of top level, extraordinarily popular players they are paying. Sexton, Heimburg, Barsby, Gurthie, and Koling are still big draws. Not to mention, if Henna and Eveliina come to US, people will all-of-a-sudden be talking about how Innova has the best FPO players.

 

[biscoe]

But are they paying them equally? Females get paid less than the males.

When Paul and Paige got signed by Discraft, Paul let everyone know he was making $1 Million for 4 years. Paige would only say she was making 6 figures (which is anywhere between 100,00 and 999,999 - I'm guessing she was on the low end of that). Yet both were 5x Worlds Champs and on the top of their game.

Paul got a new contract for $10 million for 10 years.....what did Paige get (I don't know, but I'm guessing nowhere near that amount)?

Okay, Paul does do more for the sport....he's got his foundation, he's created courses in another country. He's become an ambassador for the sport. But that is more once he got the 10 million dollar contract. He's got extra spending money to do those things.

Yes, we finally have some tournament sponsors putting up matching purses for the MPO and FPO divisions....but that isn't commonplace - and I don't think sponsor contracts are equal for males and females.

Sponsor contracts are about moving inventory, not what you may or may not have between your legs. Paul is king in that regard by a wide wide margin. I would guess Paige is Discraft's second highest paid player which seems perfectly logical.

 

[Jolt]

But are they paying them equally? Females get paid less than the males.

When Paul and Paige got signed by Discraft, Paul let everyone know he was making $1 Million for 4 years. Paige would only say she was making 6 figures (which is anywhere between 100,00 and 999,999 - I'm guessing she was on the low end of that). Yet both were 5x Worlds Champs and on the top of their game.

Paul got a new contract for $10 million for 10 years.....what did Paige get (I don't know, but I'm guessing nowhere near that amount)?

Okay, Paul does do more for the sport....he's got his foundation, he's created courses in another country. He's become an ambassador for the sport. But that is more once he got the 10 million dollar contract. He's got extra spending money to do those things.

Yes, we finally have some tournament sponsors putting up matching purses for the MPO and FPO divisions....but that isn't commonplace - and I don't think sponsor contracts are equal for males and females.

Not 100% sure but i think Kristin is Lat64 highest paid player FPO and MPO

I think the FPO vs MPO purces are hard when we have so many MPO players and few FPO players at the big tournaments.

I think Paul has decided to play for Discraft "for life" and he got a big long contract. .. . . I don´t think Paige has made that choice. . .yet

 

[Three Putt]

Sponsor contracts are about moving inventory, not what you may or may not have between your legs. Paul is king in that regard by a wide wide margin. I would guess Paige is Discraft's second highest paid player which seems perfectly logical.

This is what I've always heard.

Innova from what I was told saw a drop in sales of Champ Valks when Juliana Korver's signature was on them. How true that is I'm not sure, but that rumor came back up during the Val dust up. Innova didn't have anything against having a woman's name on a disc, they just felt from experience that it was a bad business move and they were not willing to lose money to make somebody happy. Certainly they have the data from sales of tour series discs now to either disprove or reinforce that idea. I'm sure if they felt that women moved plastic, there would have been Des discs and Val discs back in the day. They just didn't believe that was the case.

Now you are seeing some other companies take more of a gamble on sponsoring women, so we shall see if that pays off or not.

I don't really have any contacts inside Innova anymore so I have no idea what they may or may not do, but from the outside it seems like they have the luxury to not bet that big on this current boom. They have such a commanding market share that they can avoid throwing a lot of money at players right now and take a wait and see approach to see if this is a sustainable situation or not. By doing that, they might end up losing a lot of players to more lucrative contracts elsewhere in the short term.

They are Innova, though. If they lay low for 2-3 years and then decide "Yeah, this is the new normal" and go back after players, players will sign with them.

I'm really not sold that this current boom is sustainable, so I think Innova would be taking a bigger risk by throwing money at players right now than they will if they let players walk and take a wait and see approach.

 

[Jolt]

Would be interesting to see the sales number for Kona vs GG Emperor

 

[dehaas]

This is what I've always heard.

Innova from what I was told saw a drop in sales of Champ Valks when Juliana Korver's signature was on them. How true that is I'm not sure, but that rumor came back up during the Val dust up. Innova didn't have anything against having a woman's name on a disc, they just felt from experience that it was a bad business move and they were not willing to lose money to make somebody happy. Certainly they have the data from sales of tour series discs now to either disprove or reinforce that idea. I'm sure if they felt that women moved plastic, there would have been Des discs and Val discs back in the day. They just didn't believe that was the case.

Now you are seeing some other companies take more of a gamble on sponsoring women, so we shall see if that pays off or not.

I don't really have any contacts inside Innova anymore so I have no idea what they may or may not do, but from the outside it seems like they have the luxury to not bet that big on this current boom. They have such a commanding market share that they can avoid throwing a lot of money at players right now and take a wait and see approach to see if this is a sustainable situation or not. By doing that, they might end up losing a lot of players to more lucrative contracts elsewhere in the short term.

They are Innova, though. If they lay low for 2-3 years and then decide "Yeah, this is the new normal" and go back after players, players will sign with them.

I'm really not sold that this current boom is sustainable, so I think Innova would be taking a bigger risk by throwing money at players right now than they will if they let players walk and take a wait and see approach.

That's funny, I started playing because my sophomore year next door neighbor in the dorms at Iowa State played disc golf. That was 2001. People definitely threw Leopards, Teebirds, and Eagles back then but pretty much everybody was throwing the Valkyrie as their distance driver of choice…until the Beast and Starfire came out at least.

At the time all I really knew was that she dominated on the women's side, and a lot of people threw them, so it must be a good disc. Could care less that my Valkyrie or Aviar-x had a woman's name on them.

 

[glassila]

How so?

Pretty sure they will be fine in the long run.

I don't think Innova would be in financial trouble in anyways, no way.
But if they don't pay the going rate for top players they definitely will be in trouble as far as landing top name players. That would hurt their bottom line a bit, but it wouldn't out them in financial "trouble".

 

[wims]

There was a time when dudes didn't want to throw a disc that had a woman's name on it. Same as there are dudes that won't throw pink discs. Basically guys with no confidence in their masculinity. This luckily seems to be a dying breed

 

[Lastchancer88]

There was a time when dudes didn't want to throw a disc that had a woman's name on it. Same as there are dudes that won't throw pink discs. Basically guys with no confidence in their masculinity. This luckily seems to be a dying breed

I wouldn't say dying, I hear regressive comments all the time with randoms, but at least there are considerable amounts of humans who will buy a pink disc or a PP Nuke or Kona Mako nowadays.

 

[txmxer]

Sponsor contracts are about moving inventory, not what you may or may not have between your legs. Paul is king in that regard by a wide wide margin. I would guess Paige is Discraft's second highest paid player which seems perfectly logical.

exactly. It's 100% business decision and calculated risk.

On that front, there was talk about Nicco. Does anyone think he moves plastic? Not asking to be a jerk--asking because I just don't see people buying a disc because he throws it or reps a particular brand.

 

[Three Putt]

Part of it is better awareness of what disc golf is.

I can remember selling discs and having a guy say to his buddy "You want this here Ken KLEE-Mo disc. It says he's a 7 time champion so it must be good." Uh...that's a dumb way to decide to buy a disc but whatever. I can also remember two guys in a store that reminded me of the first two guys and the buddy said "You don't want that, its a women's disc" when his friend pick up a Champ Valk. People didn't really get disc golf, didn't know which discs were what, didn't know how to pick a disc, and if they went online for help there was Disc Golf Review where if you asked a n00b question you were probably not prepared for the abuse. If you looked for YouTube videos back then, all you would find were those Cubby ace videos.

So people bought dumb stuff and believed dumb stuff because they didn't know any better. The manufacturers do a much better job of marketing online now, there is better information out there and YouTube is full of pro disc golf videos with people talking about what disc somebody threw. There is a lot more info out there now, so it's probably a lot easier to realize that there is no such thing as a women's golf discs now than it was in 2004.

 

[Jolt]

I wouldn't say dying, I hear regressive comments all the time with randoms, but at least there are considerable amounts of humans who will buy a pink disc or a PP Nuke or Kona Mako nowadays.

I don´t know if 15y old me would have bought a pink discs with a womans name on it, , sad but tru. . .now 35y later i prefer pink discs and try to buy discs that supports women, i just bought a Kristin Grace in pink a few minutes ago

 

[@CD-]

I'm not sure Gibson belongs in that group - he's more into his physical prime at 26-27. Overall - definitely agree that Hammes has every bit the chance to climb onto the top of the sport for a good half decade to come if his head game is there. His putt stands out in a sport where everyone on top seems to be a superb putter.

ah, my brief internet query result showing Drew as 23 years old was from 2018 :wall:

There are always a couple new top tier regional Amateurs coming up that are high school age (15-18) that move up to Pro after USADGC/Am Worlds/NADGT Championships. Kyle Klein just aged out of that group and has shown a high focus on the tour already.

 

[ray1970]

Speaking of young players with bright futures, Gannon Buhr is a kid that probably has a big career ahead of him if he sticks with it.

I would gamble on giving this kid some sort of contract if I owned a disc company. Not McBeth type terms out of the gate but I would try to lock him into a four or five year deal now and would include bonuses and incentives to make it worth his while to perform and finish well at the bigger events.

 

[Norvelljeff]

Speaking of young players with bright futures, Gannon Buhr is a kid that probably has a big career ahead of him if he sticks with it.

I would gamble on giving this kid some sort of contract if I owned a disc company. Not McBeth type terms out of the gate but I would try to lock him into a four or five-year deal now and would include bonuses and incentives to make it worth his while to perform and finish well at the bigger events.

He has a prodigy contract and is wander disc golfs prize player. He not only has a bright future but is a 2x Junior world champion with 10+ stroke wins each time, meaning his past is gleaming.

I can assure you, he will stick with it, and will be one of the best MPO players around at some point in the future, barring any major injury.

 

[KillerKoala777]

there are considerable amounts of humans who will buy a pink disc or a PP Nuke

I literally bought two discs yesterday, a pink Razor Claw 2 and a PP Nuke. I am a dude. I love pink discs.

 

[Three Putt]

I literally bought two discs yesterday, a pink Razor Claw 2 and a PP Nuke. I am a dude. I love pink discs.

To be clear, the part of the disc golf demographic that wouldn't buy a disc with a woman's name on it was never the plugged-in part. People that played at least semi-seriously in a league knew better. It was always the very casual demographic that would have fallen into that. Anybody who would have been serious enough to create a user profile on a disc golf website would have been too plugged-in to think that woman's discs were a thing.