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Typically the creative players are less skilled
- Thread starter optidiscic
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Course player/designer rant:
How can a "course designer" have played less than 200 courses? Do you even know how experienced designers think about and/or deal with the "creativity problem" you have?
Creativity IS a skill, one of many that facilitates the ability to score well. Final score is a reflection of equifinality. About time to take a time-out to contemplate the theory of the game methinks...
signed,
Another CRABB (Creative, Relatively-Able, Bogie-Builder
)
How can a "course designer" have played less than 200 courses? Do you even know how experienced designers think about and/or deal with the "creativity problem" you have?
Creativity IS a skill, one of many that facilitates the ability to score well. Final score is a reflection of equifinality. About time to take a time-out to contemplate the theory of the game methinks...
signed,
Another CRABB (Creative, Relatively-Able, Bogie-Builder
)
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CE Fire, indeed.
Diamond reviewer with 265 posts. That's probably the oddest thing in this whole thread.
Diamond reviewer with 265 posts. That's probably the oddest thing in this whole thread.
Course player/designer rant:
How can a "course designer" have played less than 200 courses? Do you even know how experienced designers think about and/or deal with the "creativity problem" you have?
Creativity IS a skill, one of many that facilitates the ability to score well. Final score is a reflection of equifinality. About time to take a time-out to contemplate the theory of the game methinks...
signed,
Another CRABB (Creative, Relatively-Able, Bogie-Builder
I meet the qualifications! Ive visited over 200 courses and a majority have serious design, problems. Layout, safety, fairness, creativity, good risk reward, attention to future concerns (tree damage, erosion, ErOsIoN, EROSION!) and continued maintenance.
As a course designer, I don't mind anybody throwing a "creative" line. What I HATE, is when they break limbs, bend small trees, or cut down trees to open up an "easier" line. All the course was played by right and left handed, back hand and sidearm players, before the tees and baskets were placed. No one complained about any hole being unfair. I say be as creative as you want, just don't cut new holes.
this is one of the biggest issues with "creativity"
To me as a designer your post makes me think the only good hole is a straight one, where there is no opportunity to cut corners and breaking limbs does little to make the hole easier.
Yeah ... that's not creativity. That's a felony.
So what we're actually talking about here is *******s who break branches and try to "design" their own fairways? Not players who throw available but unintended lines to "beat" the design of the hole?
That has nothing to do with skill whatsoever, claimed or otherwise.
tbird888
Salient Disc Test Team
That just means he's actually spending more time researching and designing than keyboard know-it-all-ing.
*looks at own post count and hangs head in shame*
Re: breaking limbs, etc.
that can't be it... it is a BIG problem but not the only one...
Most newer players don't get it b/c they throw nose up and into the shule constantly but I'd like to think all seasoned players know not to do anything like this...
I interpreted this thread to be about avoiding the fairway somehow such as going up and over or what-not
that can't be it... it is a BIG problem but not the only one...
Most newer players don't get it b/c they throw nose up and into the shule constantly
but I'd like to think all seasoned players know not to do anything like this...I interpreted this thread to be about avoiding the fairway somehow such as going up and over or what-not
It is funny you say that
When I was helping clear Nockamixon I specifically remember the designersaying the toughest shot in disc golf is a straight one lol
To this day the toughest holes 10 yrs later are the straight shots and thesr have preserved their integrity
I will also comment on Loriella
The Mandos there are strictly for safety and really should not affect any tee shots....this is good
my issue with cheater lanes has more to do with safety and breaking down woods and destroying the integrity of a course than it does with any ego asa designer
On my course I have put up nets.....for safety
I can count a handful of holes where "creative" routes are attempted but generally they do not work out as well as throwing the straightforward line.
Is it fun to be seen as more ingenious...sometimes
My issue is youre not really developing your game if you attempt to Avery every hole...or force a flick....or chuck the Tommy...or squeeze the thumber in
A good course will crush one dimensional players
"creativity" is not helping the course or the player
DG_Before_Breakfast
Double Eagle Member
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Whoa, you are a QA Engineer it sounds like. Me too
I wish I was testing Disc Golf courses instead of software.
so do you design some holes for thumbers? For example?
I designed one hole to be best thrown with an overhand junk shot... but just that one... other lines can be thrown there but I've seen the best shots to be the overhand junk.
discs don't break trees down it's players that do that when they have nothing and then have the audacity to screw over a tree for a slightly better chance to get some progress... if you threw so badly that you are in the thickness then you have the opportunity to learn utility shots or a safety "get back to the fairway" shot... that's it
I designed one hole to be best thrown with an overhand junk shot... but just that one... other lines can be thrown there but I've seen the best shots to be the overhand junk.
discs don't break trees down it's players that do that when they have nothing and then have the audacity to screw over a tree for a slightly better chance to get some progress... if you threw so badly that you are in the thickness then you have the opportunity to learn utility shots or a safety "get back to the fairway" shot... that's it
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So what's the problem? You don't like seeing people get crushed?
tbird888
Salient Disc Test Team
Whoa, you are a QA Engineer it sounds like. Me too
I was years ago. I'm a developer, and yes, I'm fighting with a couple of my superiors over this very issue (them: it's not in the requirements. me: it shouldn't have to be).
They've stopped sending me code review tasks because of it, but they haven't stopped maintaining their code yet though...
You and me both! :hfive:
I had an overhand shot in mind but was talked out of it....I will do one though I even have one in mind on a course Im helping to design
Just have to talk the head of the project into it lol
I have built bunkers of fallen timbers into walls which dont prevent cheater lines but do channel foot traffic which helps preserve some woods n underbrush
Tyler in PA does bunkers well and this is the purpose...it works
Tyler is exactly what I thought you were talking about at first. I love those bunker style log piles!!!
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Why all the hate for overhand shots??
On my home course (Castle Hayne), I throw thumbers off the tee about a third of the time, and about a third of my fairway throws are thumbers. I also mix in a few Tommies, as the occasion arises.
Does that make me a cheater??
This is not directed to the OP, but,
I really don't expect someone to design a thumber hole, but don't get an attitude if I use it to lower my score.
Design a hole to be fun and challenging, but I'm not sure that it should be designed with a certain throw in mind. Just mix them up (lefty, righty, up and down, long and short, tight and open, early or late trees), give me some variety, don't obsess about how I attack it.
My favorite example is the USDGC, Holes 15 and 17.
Hole 15's OB and mando was added on the right, because Schwebby was dumping right and throwing thumbers over the trees to the green.
Hole 17 has netting in the trees over the tee to prevent thumbers.
Just silly.
On my home course (Castle Hayne), I throw thumbers off the tee about a third of the time, and about a third of my fairway throws are thumbers. I also mix in a few Tommies, as the occasion arises.
Does that make me a cheater??
This is not directed to the OP, but,
I really don't expect someone to design a thumber hole, but don't get an attitude if I use it to lower my score.
Design a hole to be fun and challenging, but I'm not sure that it should be designed with a certain throw in mind. Just mix them up (lefty, righty, up and down, long and short, tight and open, early or late trees), give me some variety, don't obsess about how I attack it.
My favorite example is the USDGC, Holes 15 and 17.
Hole 15's OB and mando was added on the right, because Schwebby was dumping right and throwing thumbers over the trees to the green.
Hole 17 has netting in the trees over the tee to prevent thumbers.
Just silly.
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