Nikko LoCastro intimidating a PDGA official at European Open '22

[ballgolfconvert]

Everybody can redeem themselves. I don't know the guy, so I don't have feeling about him personally. The post below really shows that he still does not get it. Mistakes are learning opportunities in life, I still fear he is going to miss the the lesson.

What do you see wrong with his posts> That he thinks the penalty is too severe? It sure seems that he has definitely learned some lessons. But then again you lo0ve to hate, so not a surprising take.

 

[zenbot]

Anyone else got any new and interesting takes on this definitely not worn out subject?

He apologized and says he's going to move forward. Do people who still care about this just want to see him quit for good or is there even a slight chance he could redeem himself someday?

I would like to see the latter but I've been told I'm too "even keeled" by a former employer. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[BogeyNoMore]

FTFY

Yea honestly, I realized basically the day after it happened how little I actually care but it does seem like he's the type of person to change for a month or two tops then revert back to the same crappy behavior.

One thing I want to point out is perhaps the reason why he's never made a serious effort to change is because his freakouts didn't happen on such a global level and from what I can tell, this is the most serious one he's had so far.

Maybe it'll take him realizing what a huge jackass he made himself look like on an international level to inspire some real change. That and I really hope he's been reading the comments on YouTube/Instagram because that right there should be motivation enough to want to change his negative image.

 

[DeanMoriarty]

FTFY

I did an oopsie.

Let's pretend like it didn't happen.

 

[Jukeshoe]

I would like to see the latter but I've been told I'm too "even keeled" by a former employer. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I guess that's better than being called "odd keeled..." :\

 

[ejvogie]

I guess that's better than being called "odd keeled..." :\

I'll take both over being keelhauled

 

[ChrisWoj]

The underlined just might be (damned near literally), the best idea yet.

Put together a solid campaign to bring to to the legalized marijuana industry, targetted at the local kevel (grass roots, if you will ), to solicit their subsidizing/sponsorship of said paid officials for the betterment of our game.

The local dispensaries in my area seem to have a never ending flow of customers, rivaled only by grocery stores. Even in this economic funk, they have to be way in the black. Hell, wouldn't surprise me if the crap economy has helped boost sales.

Surely, they have to be aware of the huge overlap between the DG demographics and their customer base.

They're certainly not hurting in any debilitating way right now... But I want to note that the biggest brand in your state has slowed WAY down. Lume closed 4 locations and laid off a lot of people in the last month. They definitely can't afford to prop up unprofitable locations until their areas are saturated with customers right now. They've laid off a fair amount of people, including people involved in scouting/building new locations. They haven't backed off their growth goals but they're in a position where they're at least tapping the brakes.

 

[nothinbuttree]

Eh. If everyone is keeping pace with the card in front of them, and the first card is playing at an appropriate pace, I don't see how you get much faster. If the first card is playing too slow, we still won't get the tournament finished on time.

Sure, the more "elasticity" there is between cards, the more likely we get slower overall play, but if the first card out plays at an appropriate pace, and everyone basically keeps up, every card essentially finishes the round in the same amount of time the first card does. Me throwing 10 seconds faster, only to have our card wait longer on the next tee by that same 10 seconds really does nothing.

Of course there is the argument that the Isaac Robinsons of the world are taking up the slack for the Gannon Buhrs of the world, and that does hold water. But all that has to happen there is for me to stop trying to rush myself to make up for the slow player on the card at which point we have the potential for that player to actually get a violation.

And honestly, I still think the top players in the game making a point of simply reminding everyone that speed of play is an issue of fairness to everyone, making it a public talking point and occasionally pushing their own card, that really could change the overall culture. But maybe the touring pros overall don't actually care about pace of play, IDK.

One thing to remember is that other than the first round, the generally lower rated players (at least higher scoring for that tourney) tee off first. Higher scores means more throws, which often means more tree kicks, looking for discs, tough lies, etc (trust me I know).

I still think too many players are playing MPO in the typical DGPT event. If the sport continues to grow, I think a full 2nd tier tour (still with many players we know today) could work. Thinning the top level events would help many logistical issues currently in play.

 

[txmxer]

Having a cut will become more commonplace I would think.

A 2nd tier tour is visionary, but a premier tour was marginal just a few years ago. It may happen. Not saying it's a bad idea, just it is many years off.

3p said it, "fake it until you make it".

DG is dealing with growing pains. It hasn't "made it" just yet.

 

[biscoe]

Assessing a warning 90 / 100 times stops it. The 10 times it doesn't in 9 times the penalty does it.

Gannon has definitely picked the pace up this weekend after a bunch of crap over slow play last week. Still tied for the lead- it's almost as if the threat of enforcement actually works if the player is not completely tone deaf and unwilling.

 

[ballgolfconvert]

Gannon has definitely picked the pace up this weekend after a bunch of crap over slow play last week. Still tied for the lead- it's almost as if the threat of enforcement actually works if the player is not completely tone deaf and unwilling.

Has the speed of the rounds increased overall?

 

[robdeforge]

What do you see wrong with his posts> That he thinks the penalty is too severe? It sure seems that he has definitely learned some lessons. But then again you lo0ve to hate, so not a surprising take.

I know I'm going against my own stated advice in responding to BGC, but man. the fact that you read that "apology" and see it as genuine instead of the words of an abuser is VERY telling

 

[ballgolfconvert]

I know I'm going against my own stated advice in responding to BGC, but man. the fact that you read that "apology" and see it as genuine instead of the words of an abuser is VERY telling

LOL. All the hate in disc golf, and all in one place. You guys are gems and since it seems some of you are instrumental in this game, none of this screwed up stuff is actually surprising at all. Up your games a bit and maybe Disc Golf could eventually outdraw Cornhole one day.

 

[jenb]

LOL. All the hate in disc golf, and all in one place. You guys are gems and since it seems some of you are instrumental in this game, none of this screwed up stuff is actually surprising at all. Up your games a bit and maybe Disc Golf could eventually outdraw Cornhole one day.

Sounds like you don't respect disc golf.

Disc golf is a game of rules. Play it or don't. Respect it or don't. But why are you here?

 

[araytx]

Relating to the Nikko opinion in Ultiworld...

I suggest the author look into the actions and subsequent punishment history of Josh Gordon.

Comparing anything in disc golf (in our current state) to MLB, NFL, NBA or NHL is total folly. We're far from that. We're lucky to be considered in the same league as Cornhole, since the Pro Tour has now gotten a few Johnsonville sponsorships

 

[araytx]

Again we get back to this idea of the volunteer officials and the slippery slope. So if a agree to be an official and I have some beef with Dynamic Discs, can I make crap-ass calls against Dynamic-sponsored players with the idea that the players HAVE to listen to and respect me? Acting like the officials could never be in the wrong and giving the players zero protection might be why McBeth seems to always come down on the side of the players.

Either that or McBeth simply is of the position he will ALWAYS be the player's advocate first.

(Hey all, author of the UW article here, just here to discuss, I know it's a hot topic and I think the arguments on both sides are perfectly valid.)



For me personally I agree, the PDGA has the sole prerogative to set the rules of its sport and there is no inherent reason they need to model after any other sport.

I tried to be clear in the article that the examples were meant to be illustrative and not conclusive on their own merits.

The hill that I am willing to die on is that comparisons to other sports provide value to the conversation because touring disc golfers deserve to be recognized as professional athletes. If an organization is treating a class of people wildly different than industry standards it is worthy of public scrutiny.

Especially as the PDGA and DGPT take no half measures in promoting the tour as a professional sport.

Comparing dg to NFL, NBA, MLB, etc. are not good comparisons. Not parallel at all. I understand your reasoning; you just used a very poor example in my evaluation of your reasoning.

Disc golf is so early in its evolution (as a sport) that the same governing body handles from age 5 to the "professionals"/semi-progessionals. None that you compared us to do that.

 

[ballgolfconvert]

Sounds like you don't respect disc golf.

Disc golf is a game of rules. Play it or don't. Respect it or don't. But why are you here?

Well Jen, just about everyone on this board claims they don't enforce the rules on a regular basis. is it because disc golfers are cheaters and douche bags or is it because the rules don't work very well? i prefer to chalk it up to the rules.

 

[ChrisWoj]

Either that or McBeth simply is of the position he will ALWAYS be the player's advocate first.

I love that he's chosen that. I truly do. He just needs to hire someone to help him do it better. What he put out on IG was not good. Helpful just because he's McBeth - but you can't just try to repaint the scene like that.

 

[dmoore1998]

You realize we can all see your posts, right?

Look, we disagree and that's totally fine. But I have no interest in a conversation of bad faith arguments and logical fallacies.

Which point is it that you disagree with exactly?

A. Getting an average of all athletes is pretty well impossible.

B. Comparing to an adequately representative sample of examples is possible.

C. You did not compare it to an adequately representative sample of examples.

I have to believe it is C which you disagree with. I suppose that's easy enough to prove me wrong on. What was the population which you used to pull your representative data set (i.e. what were the parameters)? And what method did you use to pull that data set from the population as a whole? It seemed to me like you simply found some random examples which agreed with your position...but if you actually did a statistically valid sampling I'd love to get that info.

 

[dmoore1998]

I love that he's chosen that. I truly do. He just needs to hire someone to help him do it better. What he put out on IG was not good. Helpful just because he's McBeth - but you can't just try to repaint the scene like that.

His problem, IMO, is that he has beef with the current policies...but instead of just going after those policies he tried to mix in a little "defend Nikko's actions" which just doesn't hold up well. He's trying to argue Nikko's actions against the current ruleset...when he should just acknowledge Nikko's actions but point out that the ruleset is poor.