Nikko LoCastro intimidating a PDGA official at European Open '22

[EarthRocker]

Talented Tantrum Artist, for sure. :thmbup:

I'm a little older, and an O's fan, so I went with Weaver. All red-faced and spluttering. He was comical. I've heard it told that it was difficult to know what, exactly, Earl was saying sometimes. I always imagine it like Yosemite Sam, all "Rack'em flack'em shack'em petunias in the crapper!" kind of stuff.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

I don't remember who, what, when, where but the first time young Bogey saw a manager come out onto the diamond screaming, kicking, stomping... i caught me completely off guard and totally blew my mind.

I had a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that this was an adult doing this. It reminded me of a wild kindergartner.

It wasn't until later that I realized, it's all just part of the game.


Sometimes, it's interesting to step back and more objectively think about some of the rituals we simply just accept as the norm for some sports.

Rally caps. Sweet Caroline. Any of us could list a dozen more...

Took me a while to get used to people throwing octopus on the ice at Red Wing playoff games. Sadly, octopus sales in the D have been dismally low the past several years.

 

[Riverdog]

Talented Tantrum Artist, for sure. :thmbup:

I'm a little older, and an O's fan, so I went with Weaver. All red-faced and spluttering. He was comical. I've heard it told that it was difficult to know what, exactly, Earl was saying sometimes. I always imagine it like Yosemite Sam, all "Rack'em flack'em shack'em petunias in the crapper!" kind of stuff.

Heheheheh, I love it. Weaver was so great!!! There was a time or two I thought he'd just have a stroke right there on the field. You expected the top if his head to pop off like a cartoon thermometer. And the Yosemite Sam comparison is for sure on point. Glad Earl didn't have six shooters. [emoji16][emoji16][emoji16]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[glassila]

A big reason baseball managers & players don't mind getting ejected is because it's typically for 1 game...out of a 162 game season.
If the ejection was for 5 games or more then I doubt you would be seeing this type of behavior.

 

[Rastnav]

If it is only your opinion, you shouldn't let it look like a fact, because your opinion does not match the facts.

I was very clear that it was my opinion. I even pointed out that I don't have the proper historical perspective on this. Selectively quoting me as if I didn't make it clear doesn't add much to the conversation.

For all these reasons, Petri Anttiroiko, Tournament Director for the 2022 European Open has concluded that Mr. Locastro's actions were overtly rude and threatening toward the PDGA marshal observing his card. Therefore, Nikko Locastro has been disqualified from the European Open.

Note the bolded word. I think the fact that Nikko was behaving in a threatening manner was important in determining that he should be DQed. It would appear that the TD also thought it was important.

I think if we would be having a very different conversation if Nikko had only verbally objected very rudely, yelling something like, "Are you ****ing kidding me? What kind of horse **** candy-ass call is that?! Are you stupid?"

But that is a hypothetical, so who knows.

 

[brutalbrutus]

This is still the best baseball manager freak out ever...

 

[Jimb]

No excusing his rudeness, but the way it went all down added to the situation. a warning that you are actually being timed is warranted when the situation occurs, lest you have things like this happen. Had that happened i would not be defending Nikko at all.

The fact that no one here can recognize this tells you all need to know about the game you guys play at. if you are playing for fun and such these nuances are not important, but when you are competing in the top echelons of your sport, they become very important.

Looks like Rastnav's reply covers your request for "a warning". See the part of his quote that I italicized below.

A few things, all of them just my opinion:

- He wasn't DQed for being rude or even confrontational. Even he had let an F bomb go at the official, I doubt he would have been DQed. I don't know how these kinds of things have been historically adjudicated, so I'll fully admit to being off base if I'm wrong, but given that it was a discretionary penalty, I don't think the would have DQed someone, even Nikko, for a short verbal only interaction.

- I believe the DQ was warranted based on Nikko's use of physical confrontation that implied he was inviting a fight. The only sport that I can think of where you can get that close to an official for that long without getting an additional penalty is baseball.

- The fact that the rules state a hard limit of 30 seconds does not, solely by its existence, justify a call of of excessive time. There are rules as written and rules as applied. It is anathema to the spirit of sporting fairness to apply rules in a manner that is arbitrary. Any rule is necessarily under specified. This is doubly true in the cases where there are no uniformly trained officials responsible for making all calls.

- Conversely, once you have been given a warning, that is your notification that the strict limit may apply. You don't need to then be further reminded that you are subject to penalty.

- Doubling the allowed time to throw is so far past the alloted time that, combined with the previous warning, there is really no argument that Nikko was somehow unfairly treated in the application of the penalty.

 

[_MTL_]

No excusing his rudeness, but the way it went all down added to the situation. a warning that you are actually being timed is warranted when the situation occurs, lest you have things like this happen. Had that happened i would not be defending Nikko at all.

The fact that no one here can recognize this tells you all need to know about the game you guys play at. if you are playing for fun and such these nuances are not important, but when you are competing in the top echelons of your sport, they become very important.

Players should not be expected to be reminded of the rules. If someone forgets to hole out is the argument "well you never told me I had to" sufficient? If someone throws from an area that is not the tee pad should they be allowed to argue that an official did not inform them they had to? Where does this end?

The players are required to know the rules in the rule book. The rule book covers that officials can perform these functions and the rules also cover the 30 second rule.

Let's say your counter is "well Nikko didn't think the playing area was clear, so had he known he was being timed he could have said 'I do not believe the playing area is clear due to.....'" This is on Nikko for not verbalizing this. He has to inform his group of his intentions if that were the case.

I've also seen you use the comparison of the lost disc rule which requires notification. The key difference here is the lost disc rule requires an action of the entire group (the entire group must begin searching prior to the start of the clock) so that is not a fair comparison. Throwing when it is your turn only requires action from on person.

 

[davetherocketguy]

once yall fix up jones park

Haha I have NOTHING to do with that little oddity.

 

[Ess-dog]

I don't remember who, what, when, where but the first time young Bogey saw a manager come out onto the diamond screaming, kicking, stomping... i caught me completely off guard and totally blew my mind.

I had a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that this was an adult doing this. It reminded me of a wild kindergartner.

It wasn't until later that I realized, it's all just part of the game.


Sometimes, it's interesting to step back and more objectively think about some of the rituals we simply just accept as the norm for some sports.

Rally caps. Sweet Caroline. Any of us could list a dozen more...

Baseball is a little funny with the paedo creepy song, Sweet Caroline, and a song by convicted paedo Gary Glitter.

 

[notapro]

I thought Gary Glitter was the NBA?

 

[ballgolfconvert]

You are absolutely right which is why everyone should be backing this official for enforcing the rules and the TD for the DQ unless and until some facts come to light that justifies the douchebaggery from Nikko that was caught on camera.

First off, nothing justifies what Nikko did. It just would have gone better if the official had informed Nikko. Wouldn't surprise me if some of what he said to the official is the same I'm saying? If the card members warn you on slow play, then it should be them who do the timing. I have no problem with that. Of course Nikko may have tried to kill them on the spot

Regardless, when a new person comes into the equation, they should announce their presence, and why they are there. Timing is not a black and white issue such as foot faults such. Lots of things can come into play such as when exactly it is clear, distractions, spectators walking near throwing line, being first to play from tee or fairway, which should automatically result in more lenient times etc.

Also how many holes prior did the players warn Nikko? I do not feel a warning is an open invitation to time a player on any chosen shot. Like I posted to our resident rocket scientist, what keeps someone from saying on the first tee, that they hate slow play and everyone will be on the clock at various times during the round? Not very sporting is it?

Lastly, I have seen nothing as to the cards position on the course. If they were not out of position, then this never should have happened. A warning should only last as long as the group is out of position. You want Nikko to throw faster so you can wait on the next tee? It's stupid.

I seriously hope the rules committee sees this response. I believe some folks here may be a on it. For the good of all involved just require notification of timing in tour events and recommend it for local events. Ignore it all together if the group is in position, and concede that the first to throw needs the most time so you be more forgiving on that. Is this really unreasonable since exceeding the time limit very rarely gets penalized? Be better.

 

[txmxer]

First off, nothing justifies what Nikko did. It just would have gone better if the official had informed Nikko. Wouldn't surprise me if some of what he said to the official is the same I'm saying? If the card members warn you on slow play, then it should be them who do the timing. I have no problem with that. Of course Nikko may have tried to kill them on the spot

Regardless, when a new person comes into the equation, they should announce their presence, and why they are there. Timing is not a black and white issue such as foot faults such. Lots of things can come into play such as when exactly it is clear, distractions, spectators walking near throwing line, being first to play from tee or fairway, which should automatically result in more lenient times etc.

Also how many holes prior did the players warn Nikko? I do not feel a warning is an open invitation to time a player on any chosen shot. Like I posted to our resident rocket scientist, what keeps someone from saying on the first tee, that they hate slow play and everyone will be on the clock at various times during the round? Not very sporting is it?

Lastly, I have seen nothing as to the cards position on the course. If they were not out of position, then this never should have happened. A warning should only last as long as the group is out of position. You want Nikko to throw faster so you can wait on the next tee? It's stupid.

I seriously hope the rules committee sees this response. I believe some folks here may be a on it. For the good of all involved just require notification of timing in tour events and recommend it for local events. Ignore it all together if the group is in position, and concede that the first to throw needs the most time so you be more forgiving on that. Is this really unreasonable since exceeding the time limit very rarely gets penalized? Be better.

Everybody thinks you are making up a scenario that you have no idea about what transpired and then providing a monologue that nobody agrees with.

Thanks for playing.

 

[Hampstead]

ballgolf clearly has no clue what it is talking about.

 

[davetherocketguy]

Everybody thinks you are making up a scenario that you have no idea about what transpired and then providing a monologue that nobody agrees with.

Thanks for playing.

He doesn't play disc golf. And now in an unoriginal counter argument he's accusing me of never playing disc golf even though I have proven to him multiple times that not only do I play disc golf but I run tourneys and leagues. But if he wants to be a myopic narcissist with no grip on reality that's up to him.

 

[Nova P]

I thought Gary Glitter was the NBA?

I think Gary Glitter is the guy who performed "Rock and Roll Part 2" or something like that, that song whose intro has a guitar distorted so much it sounds like an electric kazoo, and people yelling HEY.

Found it!



edit: Oh yeah he's apparently a convicted monster, so that's fun.

 

[Steve West]

Players should not be expected to be reminded of the rules. If someone forgets to hole out is the argument "well you never told me I had to" sufficient?...

I agree with what you said, and I'd like to add:

It would be sportsmanlike to remind players of the rules when you can to save them a penalty. If someone forgets to hole out, you should point it out so they can replace their marker and finish the hole. It would not be sportsmanlike to say nothing until they tee off on the next hole, then slap them with a penalty.

Right?

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

I think Gary Glitter is the guy who performed "Rock and Roll Part 2" or something like that, that song whose intro has a guitar distorted so much it sounds like an electric kazoo, and people yelling HEY.

.... (Deleted to not give GG any royalty's).....

edit: Oh yeah he's apparently a convicted monster, so that's fun.

Thankfully he's still rotting in jail where he belongs.

I kind of missed that tune at the hockey games at first but now when I hear it I think of raping kids so I'm happier not hearing it thank you.

I think it would have been funnier if Nikko had gone full baseball coach but at the same time... that's kind of what he did and possibly not to quite the "regular level" . It's just seems way out of place for a disc golfer.

He's going to be paying for his outburst for quite a while. I don't know if it's the kind of thing he can recover from. He'd have to lay down some amazing scores and totally change his spots to get back to where he was at the start of July. With that kind of anger this may not be anywhere near rock bottom and I worry for him.

 

[ballgolfconvert]

He doesn't play disc golf. And now in an unoriginal counter argument he's accusing me of never playing disc golf even though I have proven to him multiple times that not only do I play disc golf but I run tourneys and leagues. But if he wants to be a myopic narcissist with no grip on reality that's up to him.

I said you likely play AT disc golf. Real Disc Golfers understand what I mean.

As to no one caring and the facts not matching what I say. I have question marks which should indicate to readers that I am looking for more information. Given the lack of that information one can likely assume it is as i say. My questions were:

1) Did the official give Nikko courtesy of his presence and the reason for it? In his statement it seemed that he relied on the players themselves warning Nikko and didn't warn him personally. Would that have been too much? BTW the official did great in the altercation portion and showed great restraint. I think the player deserves a courtesy in this situation or it feels like an ambush and Nikko has that fight reflex.

2) Was the group out of position? Since I have seen nothing affirming they were behind, I assume they were in proper position, likely waiting on tees. If you aren't out of position, why raise the issue in the first place? To single out Nikko? Were they out of position when the warning was given and still out of position?, never out of position, or out of position but back in position? I know it doesn't matter under the rules, but it should be the decisive factor if this type of ruling should even be considered.

3) Was he first to throw his upshot? Again it matters. Study's have been done on the PGA Tour that showed that almost all players going first from tee or fairway, violated their time limit even if they were much faster at all other times. If we are looking for fairness this matters. Players not going first have more time to analyze the hole, pick the disc, etc and also glean information from the previous shot(s), so it goes faster. Again, i don't know if Nikko was throwing his upshot first but assume so since no one has refuted, and proving me wrong seems to be a big thing around here..

You want to make the game and Tour better? Adopt these understandings because they are real and take almost zero effort to implement. It would help make the game more friendly and also a bit more professional. In ushering them in, tell the disc golf community that things should have been handled better, which is why they are only suspending Nikko for the rest of the season.

On the other side of things. If the official had personally warned Nikko, the group was out of position on the course, there was no argument of distractions or spectator safety pause, and if he had adequate time to scope the throw (if throwing first) before the clock started, then I think a suspension of this and next season would be appropriate for his behavior.

 

[ballgolfconvert]

I agree with what you said, and I'd like to add:

It would be sportsmanlike to remind players of the rules when you can to save them a penalty. If someone forgets to hole out, you should point it out so they can replace their marker and finish the hole. It would not be sportsmanlike to say nothing until they tee off on the next hole, then slap them with a penalty.

Right?

If they picked up their lie they get a penalty anyways. You let them tee off it par+. The time penalty is different than other penalties. It is subjective as to when the clock should start, especially for the first to throw. It is not subjective whether you failed to hole out, stepped over your lie, etc. You all come here all pious on the rules and yet i bet almost none of you have ever called a time penalty on yourselves or anyone else despite hundreds and hundreds of violations. So you all are cheaters, myself included or their are specific conditions that need to met before exceeding the time recommendation is actually a penalty. You all want to deny that despite it being the only way you play.